5/13/26 8:00PM Cavs RD2 GM5 (2-2) @ Pistons (2-2)

[Deleterious]

Detroit had four shot clock violations in the 4th quarter.  

[DTroppens]

3 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

Detroit had four shot clock violations in the 4th quarter.  

I was trying to figure out how many they had in the game. You can go games before you see four, but doing it in a quarter?

Edited 18 hours ago by DTroppens

[Shinzaki]

Refs didn't help...but...they choked

[NYLion]

JB cost them that game. Waited too long to bring in Reed then didn't sit Reed at all after that by replacing with Stewart for a time so he ran out of gas eventually, keeping Lavert in the game when he clearly didn't have it tonight, the Jenkins/Sasser lineup was weird and the worst of all, wasting that challenge on the Lavert foul so they were unable to challenge the obvious foul on Ausar at the end. This was a winnable game that the Pistons, led by their coach, completely choked away. One of the most frustrating games I've ever watched.

[NYLion]

42 minutes ago, Betrayer said:

No. That’s how turnovers happen. You don’t go 1 on 2 or 1 on 3. Cade did everything to bring this game home. He was let down by his coach and his teammates.  

Anybody blaming Cade for this loss are completely clueless. He was doing everything once Harris cooled down and was exhausted down the stretch. Exactly right, he was let down by his coach first and foremost and his teammates. 3 guys played well most of the game, Cade, Harris and Jenkins. Stew played well for a time and Reed for stretches but it was largely a 3 man show and then largely a 1 man show as Harris faded because he was also gassed.

[Deleterious]

Both things can be true.  

Cade kept the team in the game pretty much by himself.  But he also made some massive mistakes that let Cleveland send it to OT and eventually win it.  

He wandered off of his man multiple times leading to made 3 pointers.  Strus picking his pocket for the Mitchell layup.  Not boxing out Harden and giving up a huge offensive rebound for Cleveland.  

[Mr.TaterSalad]

22 minutes ago, NYLion said:

JB cost them that game. Waited too long to bring in Reed then didn't sit Reed at all after that by replacing with Stewart for a time so he ran out of gas eventually, keeping Lavert in the game when he clearly didn't have it tonight, the Jenkins/Sasser lineup was weird and the worst of all, wasting that challenge on the Lavert foul so they were unable to challenge the obvious foul on Ausar at the end. This was a winnable game that the Pistons, led by their coach, completely choked away. One of the most frustrating games I've ever watched.

The challenge was bad, but the NBA isn't allowing the trip to be called. Even if we had the challenge thru would simply say it was incidental contact. No way does the league want a game to end on free throws. 

[Betrayer]

2 hours ago, NYLion said:

Anybody blaming Cade for this loss are completely clueless. He was doing everything once Harris cooled down and was exhausted down the stretch. Exactly right, he was let down by his coach first and foremost and his teammates. 3 guys played well most of the game, Cade, Harris and Jenkins. Stew played well for a time and Reed for stretches but it was largely a 3 man show and then largely a 1 man show as Harris faded because he was also gassed.

Exactly.

Blaming the guy who had 39 points, 7 rebounds, 9 assists, and 2 steals is ludicrous. Yea, he's going to make some mistakes because his usage is through the roof, he's playing 40 minutes, and the other team is keyed in on him non-stop. He's going to miss a close out or two because you can't be perfect the entire game with that much usage on both ends.

Cade was 6 of 10 from three. The rest of the team was 5 of 23. That includes Beef Stew going 2 for 3.  That means everyone else was 3 for 20. Cade was getting them open looks all night. You've got to make more than 15% of your threes. Just one or two of those and the game is over.

Cade shot 8 free throws and everyone else shot a total of 12. Without even getting into the officials giving Cleveland 38 shots to our 20, Cade was getting to the line when the refs decided to blow the whistle. The lack of free throws are not on him.

Cade (and Ausar/Reed) were the only reasons they even had the lead. And they would've walked away with it easily if any single other person on this team would have hit an open three or got to the line in the closing minutes when Cade was getting blitzed and making the right play to give them a 4 on 3 advantage. Tobias, Jenkins, and Lavert were garbage down the stretch and blew this game. Then the refs capped it off with a(nother) no-call just like last year.

Edited 16 hours ago by Betrayer

[buddha]

5 hours ago, Betrayer said:

Exactly.

Blaming the guy who had 39 points, 7 rebounds, 9 assists, and 2 steals is ludicrous. Yea, he's going to make some mistakes because his usage is through the roof, he's playing 40 minutes, and the other team is keyed in on him non-stop. He's going to miss a close out or two because you can't be perfect the entire game with that much usage on both ends.

Cade was 6 of 10 from three. The rest of the team was 5 of 23. That includes Beef Stew going 2 for 3.  That means everyone else was 3 for 20. Cade was getting them open looks all night. You've got to make more than 15% of your threes. Just one or two of those and the game is over.

Cade shot 8 free throws and everyone else shot a total of 12. Without even getting into the officials giving Cleveland 38 shots to our 20, Cade was getting to the line when the refs decided to blow the whistle. The lack of free throws are not on him.

Cade (and Ausar/Reed) were the only reasons they even had the lead. And they would've walked away with it easily if any single other person on this team would have hit an open three or got to the line in the closing minutes when Cade was getting blitzed and making the right play to give them a 4 on 3 advantage. Tobias, Jenkins, and Lavert were garbage down the stretch and blew this game. Then the refs capped it off with a(nother) no-call just like last year.

saying he wasnt good enough isnt "blaming" him for the loss.  he HAS TO BE SUPERMAN because the rest of the team is so flawed.

he wasnt good down the stretch in the 4th and overtime.  like del said, both things can be true: cade was the only reason they were in the game and then was a big reason they ultimately lost it.

i think he was obviously gassed down the stretch and made some big mental errors.  cleveland did what we all said teams would do to the pistons in the playoffs: send a hard double team at him and pack the paint, daring the pistons to beat them from 3.  and - just like last year - the pistons couldnt do it because their other scoring options are duren, harris, and caris lavert.

this game is on the front office (trajan and jb) much more than cade, BUT, jb wasnt the one who didnt box out, or got stripped late, or faded down the stretch.  cade has to be superman and tonight in the 4th quarter and ot he wasnt.  and that's a big reason they lost.

[buddha]

also, multiple times the pistons had mitchell/harden trapped between the half court line and the sideline in the corner and then refused to double them.  totally let them off the hook.  frustrating.

[Hongbit]

The final play was close to being an even bigger catastrophe.  Ausar touched it last and if he had just a little more momentum, the ball goes out of bounds with a second left to Cleveland.  Can you imagine if that no call led to the Cavs getting another chance?    You’ve got to make that call even with .5 left.   

[casimir]

All of the talk during the regular season about the chemistry between Cunningham and Duren.  But I wonder how that chemistry is during these playoffs.

I understand a slight drop in production from the regular season to the playoffs.  I understand a first foray into the playoffs might be tough for a player.  But Duren has all but vanished in these playoffs.  There’s not one improvement in his per 36s from last playoffs to this except for personal fouls.  He’s gone from, 24.9 points and 13.4 boards in the regular season to 11.8 and 9.7.  Ok, yeah, we’ve all seen it in action, it’s been a popular topic heading into and during the playoffs.

But how is this grinding on Cunningham?  Especially after last night and seeing the overt double teams above the arc late in the game and knowing the opponent will all any other Piston a crack at scoring rather than allow Cunningham that shot.

And while we love Thompson’s defense, and holy smokes is it a thing of beauty to watch, he’s got to pick up some sort of offense this offseason.  A 3 point shot that’s enough to keep the defense honest would be great.  A mid range along the baseline to open up the key a bit for drives/posts.  Something besides back door cuts (which are still beneficial).

[Shinzaki]

Cade has been looking less for Duren in the paint when he rolls of the screen....he has perhaps lost confidence in him as well

[buddha]

cleveland took away the pick and roll by packing the paint and having two giant shot blockers on their team.

that was to be expected by everyone paying attention.  orlando did the same thing.

its not that cade isnt looking for him, its that he's no longer trying to force it like he did in the first few orlando games.

the real problem with duren is that he's been totally ineffective on the boards and in interior defense.  he's been outplayed by stew (before he got hurt) and reed (whenever jb's dumb ass gives him a chance).

he's frustrated and sulking.  after each time he misses a bunny or "almost" gets his hand on a rebound, he shakes his head, throws his hands in the air, and sulks back down the floor.  he needs to hustle like reed and ausar.  and he's not.  

[Deleterious]

The lack of creativity from the coaching staff last night is stunning.  Every single time down it was the exact same thing.  Cade starting with the ball in his hand at the top of the key.  The Cavs defense was in position before Cade even crossed mid-court because they knew exactly what was coming.  The same exact thing over and over.

We knew months ago this tactic would be deployed against Cade.  The staff had the entire season to come up with a way to counter it, and they obviously have found nothing.  Just running the same garbage over and over and hope it works isn't a strategy.  

Put 4 guys on one side of the floor and let Cade ISO on the other.  Set the screen with a shooter instead of a big.  How about starting Cade off ball.  Put him on the baseline, set a down pick to free him up.  Start him off ball in the corner, give it to Harris or Duren in the high post, bring Cade to the ball for a direct hand off.  How about run a PnR with Jenkins and Duren and have Cade act as a weak side cutter.  Get him moving!  If a team is going to double a guy you want him moving when  he gets the ball.  Does that stop the double?  No, its still coming.  But maybe now its a step late because he gets the ball in a different area of the floor.  Maybe it gets caught up in traffic.  Maybe they just have a brain fart and screw up the double because they are seeing a different offensive set and have to think on the fly.  Stop running the Cade sledgehammer from the top of the key every damn play.

The fact an NBA coach and his staff couldn't come up with a different play to get Cade better looks is mind-blowing.  It should concern everyone moving forward.  

[Shinzaki]

There have been times he's come off the screen with an open shot...since Cade hit him in the hands  with a pass he fumbled in game 4...he's not looking for him

[buddha]

28 minutes ago, Shinzaki said:

There have been times he's come off the screen with an open shot...since Cade hit him in the hands  with a pass he fumbled in game 4...he's not looking for him

he's not open.

he drove the lane yesterday once and scored.  more of that please.  

every thing we said about duren in the playoffs has come true.  the hope is he is young and will continue to improve.

[casimir]

Duren has mobility, he has improved every season.  He’s 70% at the line.  Is there something in there to where he should be able to pick up a bit of a mid range game?

Did the Pistons pull the plug too quickly on Stewart at the arc?  Now, look, he hit two last night, small sample size.  His form looked fine.  It seemed like they talked about it once and it was short lived.  Was it too short lived?

[casimir]

3 hours ago, Deleterious said:

The lack of creativity from the coaching staff last night is stunning.  Every single time down it was the exact same thing.  Cade starting with the ball in his hand at the top of the key.  The Cavs defense was in position before Cade even crossed mid-court because they knew exactly what was coming.  The same exact thing over and over.

We knew months ago this tactic would be deployed against Cade.  The staff had the entire season to come up with a way to counter it, and they obviously have found nothing.  Just running the same garbage over and over and hope it works isn't a strategy.  

Put 4 guys on one side of the floor and let Cade ISO on the other.  Set the screen with a shooter instead of a big.  How about starting Cade off ball.  Put him on the baseline, set a down pick to free him up.  Start him off ball in the corner, give it to Harris or Duren in the high post, bring Cade to the ball for a direct hand off.  How about run a PnR with Jenkins and Duren and have Cade act as a weak side cutter.  Get him moving!  If a team is going to double a guy you want him moving when  he gets the ball.  Does that stop the double?  No, its still coming.  But maybe now its a step late because he gets the ball in a different area of the floor.  Maybe it gets caught up in traffic.  Maybe they just have a brain fart and screw up the double because they are seeing a different offensive set and have to think on the fly.  Stop running the Cade sledgehammer from the top of the key every damn play.

The fact an NBA coach and his staff couldn't come up with a different play to get Cade better looks is mind-blowing.  It should concern everyone moving forward.  

Yes, get some movement.  Start on side of the key and open things up on that side.  Could they run screens for Cunningham to run through off ball like with Rip Hamilton?  The one out of bounds play last night that was correctly changed from a 3 to a 2, Cunningham kind of improvised there, but it gave the opponent another look.  Maybe it doesn’t always have to be Cunningham on the receiving end, maybe it’s another shooter and/or Thompson/Duren come off from screening as cutters?

In one of the timeouts, Bickerstaff was imploring to play defense and break when possible.  But creating more movement in the offense should help create that bit of chaos in a half court game.

[Deleterious]

 

[casimir]

3 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

 

12 playoff games.  6 single digit scores, 6 double digit scores.  High score of 15.

[ben9753]

1 hour ago, Deleterious said:

 

Duren: "I'm humbled to be mentioned in the same sentence as one of the all time greats. It's me and Wilt."