07/02/2026 8:05p EDT Detroit Tigers vs Texas Rangers

[tiger2022]

3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I would like to see that too, but I don't have as much information as Hinch and I am not confident it would help them win games.  

Hinch isn't helping them win games by taking Carpenter and Keith out of the games now.

[tiger2022]

46 minutes ago, chasfh said:

He just barely missed a run-scoring single on that second at bat. If he’d swung the bat a couple of millimeters lower it’d’ve been there.

I know, results are all that matters.

I wonder who leads the league in barely missed ABs?

[Tiger337]

2 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said:

My argument is that we’ve already invested in Keith contractually—so play him in the field and against all pitching.  Or do we really want a 24 year old to be projected as a platoon DH for the next 7 years?

I don't think he even hits well enough to be a DH.  At least not yet.  He has a 96 OPS+ in over 1,000 at bats mostly against the kind of pitchers he should be able to hit.  

[monkeytargets39]

23 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I have thought the same thing of super huge CF scoreboards in certain parks, like Milwaukee. How can the batter not be distracted by that? I know I would. But then, I came to the conclusion that to get to this level, you have to have 99th-percentile levels of concentration. Otherwise you simply get weeded out.

Probably true.  But if I’m a 22 year old pitcher and Livy Dunne is walking behind home plate, I’m probably going to have command issues

[monkeytargets39]

1 minute ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't think he even hits well enough to be a DH.  At least not yet.  He has a 96 OPS+ in over 1,000 at bats mostly against the kind of pitchers he should be able to hit.  

Then send him to Toledo 🤷‍♂️

[tiger2022]

2 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

That's exactly the point.  They aren't good enought to hit in the majors, so they are not given a chance.  Maybe Hinch thinks that Keith can't hit lefties.  Or maybe he thinks hitting aghainst LHP will mess up his approach versus RHP.  Most lefties have a big platoon split.  

57 ABs are not a big enough sample size.  Jung has had 1300 ABs in the minors to prove he can't hit.

33-139 for his career against lefties.  Jung has proved it, Hinch just thinks Keith can't from a small sample size.  

 

[Tiger337]

1 minute ago, monkeytargets39 said:

Then send him to Toledo 🤷‍♂️

He hits well enough to be on the Tigers roster.  

[tiger2022]

I'm not even a Colt Keith fan but they gave him a 10 year contract or something and he is 24 and the best option of what they have, let him hit...this team is going nowhere especially with Vierling and Jones striking out when they get in the game.

[Tiger337]

2 minutes ago, tiger2022 said:

57 ABs are not a big enough sample size.  Jung has had 1300 ABs in the minors to prove he can't hit.

33-139 for his career against lefties.  Jung has proved it, Hinch just thinks Keith can't from a small sample size.  

 

I am confident that he's not basing it just on small sample size.  

[monkeytargets39]

1 minute ago, Tiger337 said:

He hits well enough to be on the Tigers roster.  

But he can’t hit lefties, isn’t a good enough hitter to really be a DH against righties, and isn’t a good enough defender to play anywhere.  Either play him every day in Detroit, or let him play every day in Toledo.  Benching him for half of most games doesn’t make him better at anything.

[Sports_Freak]

10 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

That's exactly the point.  They aren't good enought to hit in the majors, so they are not given a chance.  Maybe Hinch thinks that Keith can't hit lefties.  Or maybe he thinks hitting aghainst LHP will mess up his approach versus RHP.  Most lefties have a big platoon split.  

But he uses McKinstry against every pitcher. And he's even worse than Keith. Maybe leave Kevin at SS and Keith at 3rd base for the rest of the season?

[Tiger337]

1 minute ago, Sports_Freak said:

But he uses McKinstry against every pitcher. And he's even worse than Keith. Maybe leave Kevin at SS and Keith at 3rd base for the rest of the season?

That's because McKinstry can field better than Keith.  If he couldn't field, he wouldn't be on the team.

I am with you guys on not moving players around to different positions so much.  

[Tiger337]

3 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said:

But he can’t hit lefties, isn’t a good enough hitter to really be a DH against righties, and isn’t a good enough defender to play anywhere.  Either play him every day in Detroit, or let him play every day in Toledo.  Benching him for half of most games doesn’t make him better at anything.

Playing him at Toledo probably won't make him better either.  I really don't think this is unusual.  There are a lot of LHH who get platooned as much as him.  What's unusual is his contract and that might have us thinking he's better than he really is.  

[tiger2022]

Hinch and McKinstry were very similar players...Hinch is the absolute definition of a replacement player. 7 years with 0.0 WAR, ranging from -0.7 to 0.8 as his yearly WAR totals.  Except for 2 years, McKinstry is a 0.0 WAR player.

Maybe there is a kinship?

McKinstry is basically a new version of Skeeter Barnes.  He's not going to really hurt you too much but he isn't going to help much either.

Edited July 3 by tiger2022

[monkeytargets39]

4 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Playing him at Toledo probably won't make him better either.  I really don't think this is unusual.  There are a lot of LHH who get platooned as much as him.  What's unusual is his contract and that might have us thinking he's better than he really is.  

That’s why you’ve gotta play him though.  We have him through 2032.  You’ve gotta do whatever you can to develop him into something.  Is he even tradeable at this point?  We are all but out of any realistic shot of contending, so now’s the time to do that.  Put him at 3B every day.

Edited July 3 by monkeytargets39

[Tiger337]

I would like to see him at one position every day to see what happens even though I am not confident he'll ever be a good fielder..  He's really not making much money though, so it's not a huge investment.  

[gehringer_2]

there is a more general question though. At what point does it start hurting a team - chemistry and motivation wise - when young players see that management is no longer willing to invest in their further develop but has settled on using them as interchangeable commodities?

The question is basically rhetorical, but I can't help thinking that at some point you could  reach some kind of cross over  where a completely mercenary approach to player management - esp of young players, is going to become counterproductive - at least for some of then. Could it be counterproductive enough on team basis to erase the putative individual match-up advantages being pursued? Not to mention how it affects the desire of young talented player to be part of the org.

That would be the question.

Edited July 3 by gehringer_2

[Sports_Freak]

8 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

That's because McKinstry can field better than Keith.  If he couldn't field, he wouldn't be on the team.

I am with you guys on not moving players around to different positions so much.  

So use McKinstry late in games as a defensive replacement. Choose a position for Kevin and leave him there, i say SS. And, IMO, using all of these utility players all over the field hurts our defense. But Hinch really is limited in his options, the roster construction is questionable, at best. Too many fringe players and waiver wire types.

[chasfh]

We tend to make a lot of assumptions here about clubhouse relationships, players’ state of minds, their presumed reactions to front office and in-game moves, etc. probably because we are projecting how we think we would feel in the same situation were we them. It’s entirely possible that Colt Keith knows his limitations as well as anyone and is grateful to have to opportunity to play as much as he is based on what he knows he can do—and make as much money as he is doing it—versus being put into the position over and over of being forced to show us what he can’t do. He might be glad he doesn’t have to face LHPs and still be able to keep a big league job.

[gehringer_2]

17 minutes ago, chasfh said:

We tend to make a lot of assumptions here about clubhouse relationships, players’ state of minds, their presumed reactions to front office and in-game moves, etc. probably because we are projecting how we think we would feel in the same situation were we them. It’s entirely possible that Colt Keith knows his limitations as well as anyone and is grateful to have to opportunity to play as much as he is based on what he knows he can do—and make as much money as he is doing it—versus being put into the position over and over of being forced to show us what he can’t do. He might be glad he doesn’t have to face LHPs and still be able to keep a big league job.

Possible, but I think those guys have to be the outliers. Most athletes at that level have to have a lot of ego about their talent and huge drive to be on the field to even get to where they are. You hear old timers joking about calling in sick when they had to face Nolan Ryan and that kind of thing, but when they were playing none of them ever did. 

[chasfh]

3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Possible, but I think those guys have to be the outliers. Most athletes at that level have to have a lot of ego about their talent and huge drive to be on the field to even get to where they are. You hear old timers joking about calling in sick when they had to face Nolan Ryan and that kind of thing, but when they were playing none of them ever did. 

That's fair, and they definitely have to show that face to the world.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

That's fair, and they definitely have to show that face to the world.

admittedly it's a subtle thing and no doubt a big piece of managerial skill. Depending on his interpersonal skills, the same action on the part of manager could create two diametrically opposing responses in a player: a) my manager is putting me in the best position to succeed, or b) my manager just sees me as another column on his spreadsheet and doesn't care about my career.

👼😈

[monkeytargets39]

Almost all MLB players have been the best player on their team since little league.  To go all the way up to the major leagues with that being the case and then basically being told “we only find you useful for this one specific type of situation” has to be a bit jarring for the ego.    Maybe some guys handle it well, but I’d think almost all of them want to be playing as much as they possibly can.

[Sports_Freak]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

We tend to make a lot of assumptions here about clubhouse relationships, players’ state of minds, their presumed reactions to front office and in-game moves, etc. probably because we are projecting how we think we would feel in the same situation were we them. It’s entirely possible that Colt Keith knows his limitations as well as anyone and is grateful to have to opportunity to play as much as he is based on what he knows he can do—and make as much money as he is doing it—versus being put into the position over and over of being forced to show us what he can’t do. He might be glad he doesn’t have to face LHPs and still be able to keep a big league job.

A humble professional athlete? Admitting, even to themselves, that they're not good enough? Maybe you're right but these guys grew up knowing, at every level they played at, that they were head and shoulders better than everyone they played with or against. Coaches, parents, siblings, teammates and opponents all told them that, their entire life. Its hard to find a humble athlete that would admit they weren't/aren't "good enough."

[Sports_Freak]

1 hour ago, monkeytargets39 said:

Almost all MLB players have been the best player on their team since little league.  To go all the way up to the major leagues with that being the case and then basically being told “we only find you useful for this one specific type of situation” has to be a bit jarring for the ego.    Maybe some guys handle it well, but I’d think almost all of them want to be playing as much as they possibly can.

And Keith, in particular, seems to have a very fragile ego. I remember how he looked broken when he first started out in MLB. He struggled the first month or so and looked like a deer in headlights. You could practically see the pressure leave him when he finally started hitting. Hinch should leave him at 3rd base, take his lumps and see if he gets thru it. And stop moving McGonigle around, leave the kid at SS and allow him to learn. His potential is off the charts. Leave. Him. Be.