All Hype, no Haymaker

[Useful Idiot]

I had really bought-in to the claims this team had been reinvigorated, the new commitment to winning, yada yada. But the truth is, this is a budget team put together with fiscal responsibility a higher priority than winning.  Enjoy your money Mr Ilitch, you can force your minions to spin a silver lining  around this dark cloud, but I am unimpressed.  There is no  swagger,  the batters at the plate remind me more of  300 lb fat kids walking on a frozen lake listening for the ice to start cracking. 

[Tigertime]

yeah, its been a slow start....

[Useful Idiot]

I'm usually the one that clings to hope long after "more sensible" minds know to cut their losses.  But this is epic fail.  The expressions on players faces reminds me of the  kind of looks you see on the faces of 4 year olds when you first remove their training wheels.  Most of the wins we have had thus far this season  seem to have been decided by mistakes

And it's getting really annoying listening to Jack Morris' (et al) pre-fab platitudes during the broadcasts. "hey, for a guy who just gave the game away on a silver platter, I think this kid shows a lot of courage" and ersatz sparkle such as that.

I guess those guys would all be fired for reporting truthfully?

My bet? Hinch concludes his image rehabilitation with us  and moves on to a team willing to commit to winning, while we get stuck with Uncle Al's incessant "optimism" that ~next year a wildcard should be within our grasp~  - - -

 

[mtutiger]

22 minutes ago, Useful Idiot said:

My bet? Hinch concludes his image rehabilitation with us  and moves on to a team willing to commit to winning, while we get stuck with Uncle Al's incessant "optimism" that ~next year a wildcard should be within our grasp~  - - -

 

A couple of things:

1. If the Tigers are as bad as many seem to expect them to finish, why would one assume that another team would rush to hire him? Do guys who have multiple losing seasons in a row land cake gigs often?
2. This organization appears to have given him a lot of say / leeway in personnel decisions since he has arrived, more than most organizations give their manager, particularly in this day and age.. why would he give that up to go into a situation where he may not have that same role?
3. Along with the second point, that additional say allows Hinch the opportunity to help build something, which is the kind of thing that could further his legacy, particularly given that he sort of inherited an ascending team in Houston and had his reputation tarnished by the sign stealing scandal while manager there. 

I think AJ knew what he was getting into when he signed up for this role and just haven't seen any evidence that he's not invested in the success of this ballclub.

Edited May 5, 2022 by mtutiger

[Useful Idiot]

1 minute ago, mtutiger said:

A couple of things:

1. If the Tigers are as bad as many seem to expect them to finish, why would one assume that another team would rush to hire him? Do guys who have multiple losing seasons in a row land cake gigs often

I believe it is more a matter of having to heal his reputation due to the sign stealing "mess".  His stint with the Tigers will give him "re-hab" creds.

I don't think anyone doubts his ability to manage a ball team. When the time comes everyone will know where the blame for the Tigers failure belong$

[Useful Idiot]

8 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

 haven't seen any evidence that he's not invested in the success of this ballclub.

Wait until he sees a better offer. 

[mtutiger]

Just now, Useful Idiot said:

I believe it is more a matter of having to heal his reputation due to the sign stealing "mess".  His stint with the Tigers will give him "re-hab" creds.

By doing what? Managing a team to back-to-back losing seasons? Including a second season where the team (and manager) set expectations higher than it managed to achieve?

I don't see teams rushing out to make that hire.... baseball is a "what have you done for me lately" business.

[CMRivdogs]

I'm sure you'll be thrilled when the Don Kelly era begins...

[Useful Idiot]

Just now, mtutiger said:

By doing what? Managing a team to back-to-back losing seasons? Including a second season where the team (and manager) set expectations higher than it managed to achieve?

I don't see teams rushing out to make that hire.... baseball is a "what have you done for me lately" business.

I believe anyone paying attention will see the  resources he's been given to work with, and understand the results for what they are.

[Useful Idiot]

1 minute ago, CMRivdogs said:

I'm sure you'll be thrilled when the Don Kelly era begins...

It's funny you say that.   Don Kelly might just be the next Brad Ausmus.😆

[mtutiger]

1 minute ago, Useful Idiot said:

I believe anyone paying attention will see the  resources he's been given to work with, and understand the results for what they are.

If they manage to finish with a worse record than the 2021 club after having signed Javy Baez, ERod and Chafin, among others, I'm not sure the league is gonna understand that.

[mtutiger]

6 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

I'm sure you'll be thrilled when the Don Kelly era begins...

The way this org works, AJ leaving would probably mean George Lombard managing.

[Useful Idiot]

Just now, mtutiger said:

If they manage to finish with a worse record than the 2021 club after having signed Javy Baez, ERod and Chafin, among others, I'm not sure the league is gonna understand that.

All from "column B" IMO.   I hope they all thrive and have exemplary seasons. But  do not lose sight of the reality that all of them are here mostly because they were cheaper than available alternatives.

[mtutiger]

1 minute ago, Useful Idiot said:

All from "column B" IMO.   I hope they all thrive and have exemplary seasons. But  do not lose sight of the reality that all of them are here mostly because they were cheaper than available alternatives.

That's irrelevant.... Baez, ERod and Chafin are all talented players have been "resources" to winning ballclubs. ERod was pitching in the ALCS as recently as last October.

So, again, if this team underperforms expectations after having gone out and brought in these players (regardless of whatever "column" they fit in for you), I'm not sure the rest of the league is gonna understand that.

[Useful Idiot]

14 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

That's irrelevant.... Baez, ERod and Chafin are all talented players have been "resources" to winning ballclubs. ERod was pitching in the ALCS as recently as last October.

So, again, if this team underperforms expectations after having gone out and brought in these players (regardless of whatever "column" they fit in for you), I'm not sure the rest of the league is gonna understand that.

Perhaps irrelevant to you.   Do you really believe that after years of witnessing this team gut  the talent to reduce payroll, and then signing  "almost as good as" talent  to fill out the roster...that blame for  consistency in the Tigers fortunes would be credited entirely to Hinch?

IMO, the constraints are more obviously elsewhere.

 

Obviously, I don't have a crystal ball. But it will be interesting to see if it plays out exactly as I suspect

Edited May 5, 2022 by Useful Idiot

[mtutiger]

2 minutes ago, Useful Idiot said:

Perhaps irrelevant to you.   Do you really believe that after years of witnessing this team gut  the talent to reduce payroll, and then signing  "almost as good as" talent  to fill out the roster...that blame for  consistency in the Tigers fortunes would be credited entirely to Hinch?

I still don't get how the "almost as good as" things matters... either the talent on the 2022 Tigers is better or worse than 2021. That's it. And with the signings, the talent was by any objective measure better than what it was going into 2021. Not to mention the fact that they traded for Meadows as well.

I never said it would fall entirely on Hinch. He's great. But if they manage to do worse than they did in 2021 while having a more talented roster, that generally does not lend itself to getting cake gigs in MLB. 

If something changes that makes it look like a possibility, I'll let you know, but at this point it seems like baseless speculation from a relentlessly negative fanbase 23 games into the season.

[Useful Idiot]

13 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I still don't get how the "almost as good as" things matters... either the talent on the 2022 Tigers is better or worse than 2021. That's it. And with the signings, the talent was by any objective measure better than what it was going into 2021. Not to mention the fact that they traded for Meadows as well.

I never said it would fall entirely on Hinch. He's great. But if they manage to do worse than they did in 2021 while having a more talented roster, that generally does not lend itself to getting cake gigs in MLB. 

If something changes that makes it look like a possibility, I'll let you know, but at this point it seems like baseless speculation from a relentlessly negative fanbase 23 games into the season.

You really believe that a team that continues to trot out Joe Jiminez is "doing all it can" to be competitive? How many times are we expected to listen to "oh, he's been fixed now" only to see the wheels come off again? Are the fans required to assume the role of "gullible" in the name of team spirit?

I'll concede that the players you mention SHOULD make this a better team than the one made up of the likes of  Ronny Rodriguez, Brandon Dixon, and Jose Urena.   But I believe if/when we fall short of optimistic expectations, I think the people who have been paying attention to our organizational priorities these past few years, will know where the blame rightly rests.  At that point, views towards A J, I think, would be more geared towards believing a change of scenery might do him good. (you know that drill)

I think we win 75 games this season...ONLY if we play a full schedule.

Edited May 5, 2022 by Useful Idiot

[Jim Cowan]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

 

I think AJ knew what he was getting into when he signed up for this role and just haven't seen any evidence that he's not invested in the success of this ballclub.

I think he accepted the only job he was offered and Al Avila saved him from being a bench coach in Double A.  After his initial failure in Arizona he didn't get another managing job for 4 years.  If he fails here he might never get another one.  There is no evidence that I have ever heard of to support the notion that there is any sort of demand for his services.

[Useful Idiot]

It's plausible that we over-achieved during the second half of last year

[mtutiger]

10 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

I think he accepted the only job he was offered and Al Avila saved him from being a bench coach in Double A.  After his initial failure in Arizona he didn't get another managing job for 4 years.  If he fails here he might never get another one.  There is no evidence that I have ever heard of to support the notion that there is any sort of demand for his services.

His profile is different than the guy who was let go from the DBacks all those years ago, and even with the scandal he is probably held in somewhat higher esteem baseball wise than he was at that time as well.

My thing is that, for as much as we complain (justifiably) about the job the FO has had, he's really not in a bad spot with this team. The reporting has been that he is more involved with front office decisions than most managers, which is not insignificant in an era where the going assumption is that managers are more irrelevant than ever. Not to mention that the front office just did a major overhaul of the minor leagues to be more data driven, which fits his profile as well.

That was the point being made in the first post: this may not that be a bad gig for him. Particularly in a sport where Belichick-types don't really exist. And he's not likely to get it elsewhere.

Edited May 5, 2022 by mtutiger

[Useful Idiot]

4 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

 

That was the point being made in the first post: this may not that be a bad gig for him. Particularly in a sport where Belichick-types don't really exist. And he's not likely to get it elsewhere.

Being the manager to supersede Buck Showalter has on occasion worked out well for others

[mtutiger]

Appears that this is the quote a lot of Tigers fans seem to be jumping on to assume Hinch is gone any day now...

[oblong]

nothing wrong with what he said.

 

[mtutiger]

13 minutes ago, oblong said:

nothing wrong with what he said.

 

Of course there isn't. He can wish he hadn't lost his dream job near home while also being fully invested in the job he currently has.

There's enough to complain about with the way things have gone this season without inventing new things to complain about.

Edited May 6, 2022 by mtutiger

[Sports_Freak]

20 hours ago, Useful Idiot said:

I had really bought-in to the claims this team had been reinvigorated, the new commitment to winning, yada yada. But the truth is, this is a budget team put together with fiscal responsibility a higher priority than winning.  Enjoy your money Mr Ilitch, you can force your minions to spin a silver lining  around this dark cloud, but I am unimpressed.  There is no  swagger,  the batters at the plate remind me more of  300 lb fat kids walking on a frozen lake listening for the ice to start cracking. 

It could be much worse. We'll get healthy and be much better. On the other hand, think about the Reds. 3-22 after starting out 2-1. It means they're 1-21 in their last 22 games. And get this...they've given up more RUNS than they have HITS. Horrid....