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12/26/2022 7:00 EST Los Angeles Clippers vs Detroit Pistons


casimir
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2 minutes ago, casimir said:

Some changes tonight with the substitution pattern and with moving the 3rd quarter collapse to the 4th quarter.  Pretty good game if you stopped watching it with 4 minutes left in the 4th.

youre funny, assuming anyone was actually watching this game.

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8 hours ago, buddha said:

youre funny, assuming anyone was actually watching this game.

I forgot to record it, so I had to watch it live, which seems so primitive sitting through all of the damn lawyer commercials.  I missed the beginning of the 1st and a bunch of the 3rd.

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Just to go into it a little further, Lue pulled the Clipper starters out around the 14 point deficit at 4 minutes.  Their bench made the run against the Pistons starters.  He held off on bringing the starters back in until under a minute despite being basically and even game for a minute prior.  Pistons' TV surmised that the earlier benching was to save themselves for a game in Toronto the next night.  They were really pretty stunned withy what Lue was doing.  Right or wrong, they pulled it out in the end, so kudos to them.  A tough lesson for the young Pistons, although maybe one worth going through in terms of development and, of course, draft lottery.

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14 hours ago, buddha said:

youre funny, assuming anyone was actually watching this game.

*raises hand*

To be fair, I haven't missed a Piston's game since 2001. No joke.

This game was pretty embarrassing. Not sure if I've ever seen a game where the opposing team waves the white flag, puts in their scrubs, and they go on to win after being down 14 points with about 3 minutes left. What a collapse.

I mean, we all expected it to happen in the 3rd quarter like usual, this time it just took a bit longer.

Same recipe as usual:

-Opposition scores 30+ pts per quarter.
-Pistons hang with them for 2 quarters or so.
-Opposition decides to ratchet up the defense so Pistons only score 15 that quarter.
-Pistons can't/don't increase their defensive intensity so opponent still scores 30+ that quarter.
-Game over.

You can't win when you're:

-29th in points allowed at 119
-30th in point differential at 9.1 per game
-30th in fouls committed
-26th in forced turnovers
-28th in opponent FG%

It doesn't help that the offensive scheme becomes "Take turns going iso" in the 4th quarter of every game. Also doesn't help that they have zero game plan - did you see how they let Trey Young sit in the corner guarding nobody all night in the last game when every other team in their right mind goes at him on every single play on offense?

This team has issues from the coach to the roster composition and it goes beyond just saying, "they're young."

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57 minutes ago, Betrayer said:

It doesn't help that the offensive scheme becomes "Take turns going iso" in the 4th quarter of every game. Also doesn't help that they have zero game plan - did you see how they let Trey Young sit in the corner guarding nobody all night in the last game when every other team in their right mind goes at him on every single play on offense?

The take a turn offense and the constant pick & roll switching on defense have probably just become numb to me when watching them.  Ivey stuck with someone (Wall/Jackson) last night instead of switching off with the big and it caught me by surprise.  No idea the result of the play, I was just busy trying to figure out if I actually saw what I think I saw.

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7 hours ago, casimir said:

The take a turn offense and the constant pick & roll switching on defense have probably just become numb to me when watching them.  Ivey stuck with someone (Wall/Jackson) last night instead of switching off with the big and it caught me by surprise.  No idea the result of the play, I was just busy trying to figure out if I actually saw what I think I saw.

Yeah, they've been changing it up with some switching, some drop, some, ice, some doubling, some hard hedging, etc. But I'm not sure there's any rhyme or reason as to why they do which scheme or when, because our coaches couldn't find the word "strategy" if you handed them a dictionary. And even if they could, I see so much defensive confusion and so many missed assignments/rotations from the players that it really doesn't matter what scheme they're running. It's just flat out bad from coaches to players. I think Duren and Stew have solid defensive potential, but I don't know if any of these perimeter players will ever be good defenders (Killian is passable, but way too handsy and gets beat a lot off the dribble). I hope they all prove me wrong. 

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9 hours ago, Betrayer said:

Yeah, they've been changing it up with some switching, some drop, some, ice, some doubling, some hard hedging, etc. But I'm not sure there's any rhyme or reason as to why they do which scheme or when, because our coaches couldn't find the word "strategy" if you handed them a dictionary. And even if they could, I see so much defensive confusion and so many missed assignments/rotations from the players that it really doesn't matter what scheme they're running. It's just flat out bad from coaches to players. I think Duren and Stew have solid defensive potential, but I don't know if any of these perimeter players will ever be good defenders (Killian is passable, but way too handsy and gets beat a lot off the dribble). I hope they all prove me wrong. 

You would think Ivey's quickness would be a defensive asset as well with the proper coaching.

I wonder how much of the scoring increase overall throughout the league is actually just worse defense.

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1 hour ago, Deleterious said:

In a straight line he is one of the fastest players in the game.  But Ivey does not have a lot of lateral quickness and that is what you need for defense.

Seems like that should be something that training could address. If you have the fast twitch it's going to be in all the muscle groups, not just the straight line ones. The counter would be that his lateral problem is not physical limitation but a mental one - insufficient recognition/anticipation. That might or might not be as fixable.

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I think his lateral speed is fine - or at least good enough for this not to be the primary limiting factor in him at least being an average defender. Right now he's one of the worst defenders in the league.

His defensive IQ (recognition/anticipation is a good way to put it) and lack of concern on the defensive end is the main problem. He checks out, misses rotations, sags too far off of his man, and doesn't position himself to play sound defense. He's playing for the next offensive possession 90% of the time.

You can tell how competitive he is and how bad he wants to succeed, but I do wonder how much of that is wanting himself to succeed versus wanting the team to succeed. I don't think he gets how those two are related, which is probably true of most kids coming into the NBA who have been able to dominate thus far in their lives. 

But on this team who's going to show him the right way to play? There's no Popovich and Duncan to set the culture and tone. We have a team full of guys who hit the court concerned about getting their own offensive stats (Ivey, Bey, Bojan, Burks, Bagley, Hami, Knox, and even CoJo).

This team does not play for each other, they don't move the ball well, they don't help each other defensively, they just don't play winning basketball. A lot of that is on the players, but there's plenty of blame for the coach/system and the GM/roster-construction as well.

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watching other teams play (mostly the bulls), tells me the pistons are not the only team that doesnt "play as a team."  

teams without strong point guards seem to just be collections of one on one artists.  each time down the floor is another exercise in one on five.  maybe someone sets a pick at the three point line and rolls to the basket or flares out wide.  if that doesnt work, its one on one time.

as much stick as i give cade for being too passive until the 4th quarter, he does try to move the ball and get his teammates involved.  he's playing point forward. seems very mature for his basketball age.

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