Motown Bombers

Matt Patricia would have them running sprints outside in the cold.

It's also probably not a good thing that you didn't realize Goff can't run your offense and/or go deep until after you gave him a massive contract.

I don't think they are similar, I think their career path is similar. The Lions could have easily given up on Stafford at the same point the Rams gave up on Goff.

Just so we are clear, I never said Goff and Stafford are interchangeable. I'm comparing their career paths. The talent level is irrelevant unless you feel the talent level dropped significantly on the Lions from 2011 to 2012 and beyond.

Fair point. The Rams didn't have one of the greatest WR of all time. The seasons I'm comparing Stafford to Goff were before Patricia.

The similarities don't end there. In Stafford's 7th season, when he was 27, Lions offensive coordinator Joe Lombardi is fired and Jim Bob Cooter is elevated to offensive coordinator. Stafford's QB rating improves from 86 under Lombardi to 105. His elevated play continues into the next season and beyond. In Goff's 6th season, when he was 27, Anthony Lynn is fired for all intents and purposes. Ben Johnson is de facto coordinator with Campbell calling plays. Goff's play greatly improves and that improvement continues in the next season. It remains to be seen whether Goff continues to play at this level like Stafford did, but the similarities are too remarkable to ignore.

I feel this year he has proven he is capable of being the QB he was in 2017 and 2018 which was a franchise QB. The Rams thought highly enough of that production to make him the highest paid player in football at the time. I think he shown enough this year to table QB discussions for at least another year. I believe that he has shown the upside to be the QB for the next few season. I also think pedigree matters. He was the number one pick for a reason. The Rams, including the current Lions GM, thought he was a franchise QB and he played like it for a couple seasons. I also think there is reason to believe, based on examples close to the Lions, that QBs can peak and decline and peak again. I think people made up their mind about Goff the minute he was traded to the Lions. He's playing like a top 10 QB on a top 5 offense. This is a different situation from someone like Geno Smith who is playing out of his mind and never came close to this type of season. Goff isn't even on pace to break any of his single season career highs. He's shown he's capable of playing at this level in the past.

Literally compared one person to Stafford but I'll await your thorough analysis.

As they shouldn't. It should be whether they believe that A) Goff isn't the guy, and B) the rookie QB is better than Goff.

Seems like an awful lot of risk for short term temporary cap relief. I'm not sure the message it sends to them team that you just want to be cheap with the leader of your team.

The one thing I see trending down for the player on the left is passing yards. I would also note his passing attempts decreased. I would also note that when he through only 3,245 yards, he had deep threats like Quintez Cephus and Kalief Raymond. I also don't see the 7th year where the QB reverts to the year 2 and year 3 QB.

The Rams literally had $44 million in cap space eaten up by QBs. 24% of their cap space was taken by QBs. I wonder how many teams are successful drafting QBs every two years?

I remember this exact conversation on the previous forum. Look at the Rams! They're going to the Super Bowl with a QB on a rookie contract. Ironically, the Rams ended up acquiring a veteran QB instead of cycling through another rookie QB and ended up taking a $44 million hit in cap space on QBs.

So what happens when it comes time to sign Stroud? You really want to cycle through QBs every 4 years?

After having one season with a QBR over 60, net yards per attempt peaking in 2011, no season with a 3:1 TD/INT ratio, the Lions really need to draft a new QB. Stafford isn't the future. He's steadily declined four straight season even though the 4th season isn't a decline but is he really the future or is he just a product of having a hall of fame WR? You have these college QBs entering the draft like Jared Goff and Carson Wentz. If the Lions really want to compete, they should draft Goff and have him sit behind Stafford for a year or two. Stafford is due for an extension soon and he just hasn't proven he can win or be good without Calvin Johnson who just retired.

*Ducks*

How many #2 picks are so bad they are inactive not due to injury by year two and not become a bust?

Even "bad Goff" made the playoffs with the Rams and won a playoff game in Seattle. Looking at the 2018 team, you have Cooks who is the upside for Williams, Kupp who is played by St Brown on the Lions, and Robert Woods who is pretty much a healthy Chark. Gurley was better than any RB the Lions currently have but this wasn't a team that was just so great any QB could have been inserted. If it was, that's great because one of the main architects of that team is currently the Lions GM.

You know who else saw a decline in QBR after peaking early? Matthew Stafford. In 2011 his QBR was 60.5. It didn't reach above 60 until 2016. It bottomed out at 44 in 2014, which ironically was the one year Stafford made the Pro Bowl. Stafford has never had a 3:1 TD/INT ratio in a full season. I also find it interesting that Goff's INT rate declined immediately upon leaving the Rams and Stafford's INT rate was the second highest of his career in LA. Maybe there is something about that Rams offense. When Stafford peaked in 2011 he was 23. When Goff peaked in 17 and 18 he was 23-24. When Stafford got back to a plus 60 QBR, he was 28. Goff is now back to a plus 60 QBR at age 28. What happened when Stafford turned it around at age 28? Jim Bob Cooter became offensive coordinator. What happened when Goff turned 28 and turned it around? Ben Johnson became offensive coordinator. We can look at net yards gained per attempt. Stafford peaked in 2011 (which is still lower than Goff's peak) declined and hit bottom in 2018. Goff's career high would be higher than Stafford's career high and Goff's current net yards gained per attempt currently would be the 3rd highest of Stafford's career. Goff's QB rating dipped below 90 once to 86.5. Stafford's dipped below 90 following that 2011 season for three seasons in a row bottoming out at 79. It's also not 4 years of decline. It's 3 years since Goff is reverting back to his 17-18 self. I know KL2 is absolutely salivating to rip this apart. I'm simply illustrating that there is precedent for a QB to peak early, decline, and peak again. The career arc of Stafford and Goff are remarkably similar. Goff actually showed two seasons of high level play before declining whereas Stafford had one. The decline and resurgence are at the same ages and they both coincide with offensive coordinator changes.

Not convinced Goff can sustain this level of play despite Goff sustaining this level of play over full seasons previously in his career.

Goff reminds me of Doug Fister. Doesn't have overpowering stuff and when he was on Seattle had a terrible W-L record, but on a good team he was very effective.

That is some of the criticism I read of him. Apparently he was becoming disgruntled in Seattle because he wanted to win an MVP but couldn't do it since they run the ball too much. He also didn't give his phone number out to teammates and you had to contact his PR firm. He seems very concerned about his image.

It's interesting I have heard some of Wilson's former teammates in Seattle not say the greatest things about him. Seems like a pretty weird guy. I think we are seeing more of it come to light since he isn't winning.