Jason_R

I was not a believer in the March curse as of March 1, 2026. As of March 31 I was convinced there is some kind of weird dynamic with the team. Did having THE CAPTAIN™️ around somehow put Larkin or others on edge? I don’t know. But with the hometown, home grown captain leaving the way he is, there was clearly something toxic between them. It is hard to imagine this didn’t impact the team.

That’s part of a good culture. Was Larkin doing this? Were Stevie and the legends letting him?

This is an interesting article about old school team building philosophies. I am not sure it connects with the scouting versus analytics debate, but it does address the preference that many teams have for size in defenseman. Clearly, Stevie agrees, and his team now has arguably the best first defensive pairing in the NHL. Also, if you leave out ASP, the average size of the defensive corps in Grand Rapids is about 6’4”. Now, those guys have not hit yet, and some of them may never. But Anton will probably make the NHL roster next season and will be a third defenseman who is young and big and mobile. ASP is a bit of an exception to this, but if his floor is Shayne Gostisbehere, playing on the third line, running one of your power-play units, and putting up 55 points a year, this means that in a year or two, you have a pretty good defensive corps. .

I’m going to tap out after saying, again, we have no idea what recommendations the pro scouts made or did not make. And we have no way of knowing whether or not Yzerman followed any of their recommendations. Ergo, we have no way to draw any conclusions about their pro scouting personnel or systems. OTOH it is clear that something is not working. It is also clear that the analytics movement is doing for hockey what it did for baseball. This is why I said earlier that if I was Chris Ilitch, I would ask Stevie to give me a plan for bolstering the analytics operation. If Stevie doesn’t want to go that direction, or doesn’t take this opportunity to make a substantial commitment to building up the analytics team, and I were his owner, I would be very alarmed and would be considering all other options.

Scouts do not issue contracts. Scouts do not run practice. Scouts do not manage line combinations and ice time. The bottom line is we have no idea what the internal scouting reports said on any of these players. We have no idea whether these were the top players on the scouts’ lists, or if they were just the only ones who would sign.

The Uncle Fester part of your comment is my point. There is no clear vision for what kind of talent needs to be acquired and how to use it and how much it is worth. So your Uncle Festers of the world play guys on this line, that line, this wing, that wing, just to see if it works. It doesn’t. Is that the fault of the scouts? Not necessarily.

“Pro scouting” is a mantra people repeat because Mark Howe left a few years ago and wasn’t replaced, and because Stevie signed some free agents who were over-priced and/or did not work out. It is lazy thinking. Stevie has signed some free agents who were over-priced because that is what you have to do in the FA market. People complain about signings like Tarasenko. “Pro scouting blah blah blah!” Well, he left Detroit and is performing again. So how is that an indictment of pro scouting? He was better before he got here and after he left. Again, just lazy thinking. One key problem I see is with the organizational culture. I don’t know how much Larkin is to blame, Stevie, the vets upstairs, Chris Ilitch, but it seems like everyone is afraid to make a mistake. They grip their sticks too tight in March. They wait too long to promote prospects. They value “veteran leadership” over youthful energy. This has nothing to do with pro scouting. The other problem is that, without a well-developed analytics operation, nobody knows specifically what to value or how to value it. Maybe as a result that allows Stevie to overpay for things like “veteran leadership” (which he evidently wants Chiarot to provide in the defensive corps). Maybe as a result that means Stevie does not even think with enough detail about what hockey traits to value. Carolina knows exactly what traits they want to find and how to value them. This helps define their team culture. I don’t believe firing scouts or tanking addresses either of these problems. Detroit needs to build out a better analytics team to help them do a better job of connecting amateur scouting, player development, pro scouting, and the management of contracts and cap.

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I do not believe tanking is necessary. I do not believe a clean sweep of the front office is necessary. But I sure as hell hope that when Stevie met with Chris Ilitch at the end of the season, Chris offered to make additional investments in analytics, and if so I hope Stevie took him up on this. The Wings are already behind here and Carolina’s Cup win is an indicator of how far behind we are.

I haven’t seen NYI or NJ reported as being involved in conversations about Larkin. They might be but I haven’t heard much about them. Still seems most likely that a young but established C with upside comes back with prospect and pick.

Unless the trade is to Dallas, there will be no possibility of replacing Larkin with a comparable player. But they need at least one established center to come back. I saw a report earlier that Florida has made an offer. Multiple teams will make an offer. Hopefully the interest is strong enough to raise the market price.

Good write up on him. Good vision and passing but not strong enough to get to contested spaces.

He will replace someone in GR.

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Eichel will never forget that crossbar.

FTR I never said Cossa. But I did talk earlier about circumstances where it would make sense to trade Gibson.

Add Vegas to the list of teams who will be looking for a goalie this offseason. And just as I was about to say the first goal was soft, Hart made an unbelievable sprawling save! 😂 Of course the save was after he misplayed the puck and was badly out of place…

There is about a 0% chance that someone other than Stevie makes the Larkin trade. That is likely to be done before or during the draft.

The elephant in the room is whether Larkin's announcement changes ADB's willingness to sign an extension, or even Kane's willingness to come back for another season. I assume both are waiting to see what the return is before making any decisions, but if it happens that ADB has decided not to extend based on Larkin's departure, then yes, trade him, trade Gibson, trade Faulk. Barring that, it is not out of the question that Larkin gets replaced by Robertson/Johnston from DAL or Lundell from FLA who could fill the Larkin role, or most of it. Now you're looking at phasing out some of the empty jerseys with your prospects and letting them fight for a playoff role, and making your decisions then. If they think EP40 would benefit from a change of scenery, and Vancouver would take one or two of our short-term bad contracts (Compher/Rasmussen) for their long-term bad contract, you suddenly have a guy who could plausibly take over the 1C role with another Swede on his wing and who may turn into a dynamic line with a guy like MBN or Bear when he is ready on the other wing. Larkin's replacement slots between Kane and ADB (and this would let Stevie be more flexible in replacing Larkin with a younger prospect). Copp can play with Mazur and Kasper on a checking line, then you let Finnie, Danielson, and another youngster (maybe Lombardi) play on a speed/energy line.

Anyone who is judging how long a rebuild should take based on some arbitrary timeline is fooling themselves. The rebuild started with Yzerman inheriting a roster that produced the third-worst season in the modern era. It has now produced three straight seasons where the team has been at the cusp of making the playoffs in a very competitive conference. It is not yet a success, but it is not a failure. if one believes that these three late collapses are somehow related to a lack of leadership provided by the captain (and I think it is hard to discount this possibility this now) this trade request is an opportunity to take the rebuild to its next stage, especially since it seems the conditions are right for a bidding war to begin. on the other hand, I am alarmed with how Stevie has handled prospects. Cossa in particular has clearly earned the opportunity to play more than two periods of hockey in the NHL. Stevie’s failure to call him up has undermined his development and his value. This may also be the case for other prospects. And it is the other side of the coin to Stevie signing free agent veterans who have underperformed their contracts. At any rate, it will be a busy summer for Stevie. Larkin will move, Cossa is likely to move, and I still think he may still pursue trade conversations related to a forward (EP40?) that didn’t get concluded at the trade deadline. Finally, it is almost certain that we see MBN, Mazur, and Danielson make the NHL roster next season and maybe ASP and others. Does a third of the roster get turned over? Maybe.

I do not want to see ADB traded. At least not in the off-season.This is a team that, despite having several empty jerseys, was in contention for a playoff spot until the very end. Some of those jerseys will be filled with better players next season. obviously, Larkin’s will not.as far as Larkin’s replacement goes, I am still holding out for an established an NHL center (or high-end young prospect) with a mix of prospects or draft picks. Run it back to the trade deadline next season and see how things look. If ADB does not want an extension at that point, trade him at the deadline. Trade Faulk too. but if you are Stevie, you have to see how much of the culture issue was related to Larkin.

Does this say more about Thomas or about Detroit’s scouts?

Remember, Mr. I, God bless him, pushed all his chips in on the Tigers too and left both teams crapped out. People are saying that Stevie is only still here because of his legacy as a player, but they get it backwards. Only his legacy as a player has afforded him the time to rebuild a franchise that, at its low, had the third worst points percentage in modern NHL history, behind the expansion Atlanta Thrashers. He hasn’t been perfect but we lose sight of how historically awful the Wings got.

If Larkin could not cut it in Detroit, I cannot imagine him cutting it in Canada, with the fishbowl of the Canada hockey press. These people are already out to get the members of team USA who are playing on Canadian teams. They would tear Larkin apart. I also can’t imagine that Stevie has any interest in sending him to the east, though you have to assume that if the deal is Lundell and 9OA, it would be considered. I also have a hard time thinking that Vegas wants Larkin as much as he wants them. I think it will come down to Minnesota with a third team involved, or one of the upstarts in the west. Like San Jose, Anaheim, or Utah.