HeyAbbott

I almost thought of creating a thread called "Hold 'Em or Fold 'Em? Hold 'Em: Tork, Greene,Kreidler, Carpenter,Parker Meadows, Austin Meadows, Eric Haase, Javy, E- Rod Fold 'Em: Miggy, Daz Cameron, Kody Clemons (too old for a prospect), Zack Short, Drew Hutchinson, Barnhardt,Candelario, Garcia On the Bubble: Anyone Named Castro, Schoop Miggy needs to be gone. Now.

This looks like a good hire. Scott Harris has his hands full. He will have a roster cleanse to do this off season that will make some shudder. One thing that has to be said is that the Tigers did a great job of not leaking this.

I'm back from an almost four weeks visiting family on the east coast. I thought that this team was going to be slightly better than an 80 win team, and I couldn't have been more wrong. What this season has revealed is this organization is a dumpster fire of biblical proportions. I think that the best that can be hoped for in 2023, is a sorting of the wheat from the chaff. We might have 4 position players on the active roster that might be MLB caliber players next year. Get this GM hire right Chris I, or your MLB club will be nigh to worthless

Go back and look at the last 20 posts on this thread. We have 2 of 8 position players that are probably going to be somewhat ok, mainly Greene and Baez. We are looking for a minimum of 6 position players. Maybe 2 OFrs step up. Maybe we trust Tork to hit and take care of 1B, which will be a titanic leap of faith. We need a new 3B. We need Miggy gone. Maybe the catcher is filled internally. I sure as heck hope we hit on some internal options or 2023's team in action will be less exciting then watching white paint dry.

People and organizations do no one any good by not making changes when changes are needed to be made. Miggy needs to be gone for the franchise to move forward.DFA him. Now.

I was born in the very early 1950's. I clearly remember the '61 and '67 seasons. My health is shaky and I know that I too could be gone any moment. I have resigned myself to the fact I most likely will not live to see the Tigers return to greatness, but I am hoping I live to see them have a mediocre (80 to 83 wins) season. Even living that long would be a major miracle. A realistic read of internal talent pushes the expected date of a mediocre season to 2026, with maybe a playoff run to 2027. For this team to begin to get better, it will take moves long past due, such as releasing Miggy. He is done. It is embarrassing to everyone to see him play now. He has been a below replacement player for some time.To get better, one cannot be sentimental. One must make an honest assessment of who stays and who goes, and the GM must remove those who are not part of the future as soon as possible. As things stand right now, I think Greene will become a solid everyday player, and Baez might be put in that class. What I see a lot of cannon fodder everywhere else, and most sadly, I put Tork in that group. He has been completely mind fucked by Tigers management and coaching staff. To be competitive, we need 4-6 positional players that will produce an ops of at least .730. Coolbaugh needs to be fired right this very minute. There is a lot to be done.

Absolutely agree. If I were the GM, my first order of business would be to get Miggy retired.

Maybe Al wanted to establish his that he was more than DD's errand boy? Did Chris give them a free hand because he had other concerns and he felt the experienced hand could run things? Maybe so.

When I looked, they had posted the Associated Press Release.

Very happy to hear this. CI did this correctly and let him go effective immediately. There can be little doubt that public embarrassment that Chris endured was a factor.

This thread's current trend has me laughing my ass off. The AL ops average is .730. Hitting Harold is at what? .715? and Haase is at maybe .712 On the position side of things, Haase (as a backup catcher),Greene, and Baez are the only position players we have worthy of being considered MLB utility grade players, with maybe Baez being a starter. The rest are just organizational cannon fodder.If Miggy retires, and the Tigers restructure his contract to be paid over20 - 25 years, cash would be freed up. Show me a lineup that can bat at least a .720 ops clip, then I will get excited about the Tigers short to intermediate term chances. We have to remember that we are currently talking about a team that will struggle to obtain an OPS 0f .590 by year end. We are a minimum of 4 quality position players short of being mediocre.

Tyler Alexander has a nice 'stache tonight. Is it a lucky stache?

I would be tempted to host an intergalactic kegger if Avila got fired. After looking at the organization, we have an ops of .619, with the MLB median at .709 and the top twelve teams being .722 or better. We have one player, Haase, that has a WAR above 1. In short, we are woefully inadequate offensively. We need to come to grips with one simple fact is that we are still in a rebuild because it has been bungled horribly during the last seven years. Whether we like it or not, Skubal is a major asset, and this team is a lot further away from being a .500 team, let alone a true contender than most of what we believe. I believe that we will be sub .500 next year as well. I am also not convinced that Tork will make it and stick in the MLB as an impact player. We have still quite a bit of pitching in the pipe. Skubal is valuable in that IIRC, he has had his Tommy John, and Faedo is still working on his craft. Offensively, might have 2 positional super subs in the farm system right now that is close and outside of some pitching, that is about it Between Turnbull and Mize, one at least should recover from TJ very successfully, filling a pitching slot. Manning hasn't had a TJ and recovered yet, which also makes him less valuable as his recent arm history would make me think he will have one someday soon. Since bullpens are always a crapshoot, I wouldn't hesitate to trade bullpen pieces for bats. There isn't anything in the current bullpen that is not for sale in my opinion. The one major reason I would reject any Skubal trade, is the fact that during the last seven years the Tigers demonstrated that it is doubtful that they can evaluate, acquire protect, and develop talent. The fact that AA is still GM remains a very powerful reason not to trade anything, except maybe Soto or Fulmer. In the real world with a half-competent GM, a trade of Skubal would have to be considered. l would listen to offers and mull them over carefully for Skubal while being roughly 99 percent certain I would never pull the trigger so long as it is Al Avila's call.

Maybe trading Skubal, Fulmer, and Soto is what is needed to be done.I'd like to hold on to Skubal, but for an MLB ready position player, I am ready to kick the tires.

He can smile, wave his hat at the crowd, and give some of the fans a thrill at seeing him. I don't care what happens to him. He is not blocking anyone and one can always get a sub replacement DH.

This I agree with completely.

Maybe we are expecting too much for a Detroit team. After all, the last time the lions won a championship was in 1957. We are not even at the 20 year mark of this rebuild. Anyway, it looks like we will be mired in sub mediocrity for years to come.

I am incredibly disappointed in this season. I figured if all of the pieces from last year did their career averages, the new additions performed to their average performances and the pitching held up, I thought their was a good chance of being a slightly better than even chance of having a winning season. Granted the pitching injuries and the ST injury to Greene took a lot of win out of that proposition, but I still thought a 75 win season might be possible. The reality is that one would have to consider a 75 win season a success at this juncture. Worse than not winning, this team has not been entertaining. The biggest puzzler is that the vets on this team are hitting way below expectations. Of the 120 plus seasons this team will have completed in October, it looks like at best this team will be the third worst in Tiger's history, in either ops or runs scored per game. Offensively they are dead. Greene is what one would expect for a rookis. Tork needs his time in AAA, and who knows, maybe he never hits big league pitching. What I am hoping for is some entertaining baseball for the remainder of the season. I am also looking for the organization to send a clear message that failure is not acceptable. There needs to be some clear personnel changes that send a message. It should be Al as it starts at the top.

When one drafts players , one can draft folks who project to be pitchers, or one can draft a "just a guy" pitcher for organizational cannon fodder. The point of this is that roughly one out of three pitchers(maybe trending more now?) will have TJ surgery. One strategy is to sign a just a guy minor league pitcher, and build your staff from almostt exclusively FA signings. The idea is to manage your player development risk and to hand as much as possilbe of that off to someone else.

To quote Zeppo Marx, " To have a good football team, you have to have good football players." I think he was on to something there. I am seriously doubting the talent level on this team. At the very least, the construction of the team is poor. Not to worry though. We are merely in year nine of a 66 year rebuilding program, similar to the Detroit Lions.

Personally, I'd prefer getting high quality position prospects, and then sign my pitchers after they have had TJ surgery and went through rehab. In pitching , you get what you pay for and drafting pitchers to develop them is just a waste of resources.

Since we all attend the Church of Baseball, all I can say is, "Amen Brother !!"

I thought about putting this in a separate topic, but seeing the ERod fiasco unfold, I was thinking about how I felt about the FA signings and trades by Detroit this year. E Rod-- A total bust. He will never pitch again for Detroit in my opinion. Barnhart-- He was and is a placeholder until something better comes along. He hits like a typical 30 something catcher and the defense is reasonable. I had low expectations for him offensively speaking, so he is roughly what I expected. Chafin-- IMO, he was the best FA sign by the Tigers. He has performed as advertised. Pineda- A large sized disappointment. Javy-- I think over the long run he will do fine. Defense has been great, hitting I think will have regressed to his norm by the end of the year. Meadows-- Unbelievable bad luck, but may be fine next year. Putting the best spin on things, except for Chafin, I think the FA signings were largely a bust.

He is not very effective.

Relievers are such a flash-in-the-pan, flavor-of-the-month commodity I certainly agree with this.