NYLion

It's a fair take but I don't think they can afford to let this season go into the abyss and I think it's important, not necessary but important to win a few games just for their psyche going into the offseason because a lot of the team is made up of young players that will be here beyond this season.

The offense had the most flow it had all season when Cade was in last game. He bricked some shots but his playmaking presence (and defending) was evident in his short stint. Even Cade at 50% or whatever he was to start made a clear difference not only with the offensive flow but with pace. With that said, this appears to be CoJo and Olynyk's team with Casey running things at least for now so these games are unwatchable even though Olynyk is actually a pretty fun player to watch on the offensive end. I just don't care about these guys for a team that isn't winning anything while they're here.

No, it's not meaningless. You don't want games like these to pile up to close the season. This season is about building a foundation, building a culture. All your building is a losing culture if you're not only losing, but not competing. It's not necessarily about wins/losses although 0-17 should never EVER be acceptable or meeting an expectation, it's about showing incremental improvements as the season wears on and laying a foundation going into next season and beyond. If these non competitive losses continue, this season was a compete loss. The coaches/players etc. need to make sure this season means SOMETHING. It's a lot of young players on this roster, they need to learn how to compete regularly and I'm seeing regression in their game. Swift, for example, looked like he wasn't even trying this week. Not good signs.

They are a fan of winning though.

O...K? What's your point? You're ok with what we've seen the last two home games? Obviously you didn't read my post when I said "I don't think Campbell should be fired" so.... anyway.

Sorry but 0-8 is unacceptable no matter what. I was on board with the competitive losses but getting blown out of the water in two straight home games especially when there was some "give up" in the players is completely unacceptable. I expected struggles, I expected a few blowouts, but I did not expect to see a team that is worse in Game 8 than they were in Game 1. I'm not even going to touch on the coaching errors in the close losses. As I said before, all I wanted to see was some progression and if anything, the team is regressing and it appears that the coaches' message is growing a little stale. I get that there's a lack of talent, and injuries, but you still need to see compete every week (when you're trying to build a foundation) and I haven't seen it as of late. Of course you don't fire Campbell anytime soon but I don't see why it's so taboo for him to be questioned.

I had an open mind going into the season knowing that it would be painful but I also expected progression throughout the season. I know that key injuries have made this a tougher task but I'm seeing a team that's regressing and some players that are already tuning out the coach. I was never sure that Campbell was the right guy and never cared much for all the "rah rah" stuff at this early pressers but I will say that I'm becoming less and less sure of him being anything more than a motivator as the weeks go on. It's not only a lack of talent issue, it just has the look of a poorly coached team. I'm not saying he should be fired or anything like that but man does this guy look out of his element at times.

Whoever makes the Watson trade is likely sending a high pedigree young QB the other way and, lets be honest, it appears to be Miami if it does happen (apparently Carolina dropped out) so if Houston takes Tua as a centerpiece, why would they draft another QB? If no Watson trade is made then, yeah, it will flood the QB market even more for the draft.

I doubt Miami, Houston, Indy or Carolina especially if the Watson trade to Miami happens. Indy and Carolina burned some prime assets to acquire their guys and Wentz is playing well for Indy so I doubt either will be in a market for a 1st round QB but who knows I guess. New Orleans yeah, I forgot about them but it also depends on how Winston does since they're contending team right now. Pittsburgh for sure. We'll see. Not many projections have more than 2 QBs going in the top 20 but of course that can change. If there is a run on QBs, oh well move on.

They could still probably get a shot at one of them in the late 1st. This is a unique season in which there are any elite level QBs that are locks to go in the top 10 and there aren't many QB needy teams after so many were taken last draft. Who is even a big threat to take a QB before the Rams pick? Washington, Denver and Atlanta? And I doubt that all 3 take a QB so I think there's a real shot at one of those guys with the Rams pick, preferably one of Willis or Corral.

Taking a QB in the mid to late rounds is pretty much a wasted pick. The hit rate on QBs that late is less than most other positions partly because they rarely get a chance to play. Either take a QB in the 1st or don't take one at all.

Can't disagree with any of that and I think it's better in the long run if they get another top 5 pick in this draft because the talent base, while much improved the last 2 years, still needs another big addition (preferably a more athletic player) to really think about competing next season and beyond.

They got a 1st back in the Kennard trade which turned into Bey. No Kennard trade, No Bey. Who gives a hoot about the 2nds, they drafted a core player with the return. Kennard wasn't an "asset", he was an oft injured player who was about to get paid big bucks. The impending contract is what made him a negative asset but looking at the picks in isolation, would you rather have the four 2nds or Bey? I know who I'd pick. Not a big fan of the Jordan deal but it's really inconsequential in the grand scheme. It was basically designed to recoup some 2nds. I'm not sure we complete agree though. You seem to think Weaver is doing a bad job (unless I'm misinterpreting your position) and while I'm far from crowning him at this point, I'm in wait and see mode because that's all you can do in a rebuild. On the surface, there's been some good (we disagree on Bey being a good thing) and bad with him but until we see what this young core is made of, it's an incomplete right now.

So let me try to understand. Weaver is an idiot for giving away garbage 2nds but is also an idiot for taking on garbage 2nds. They got Bey from the Kennard trade and in the process, didn't overpay Kennard. The 2nds are inconsequential. Drafted a top 10 level talent who can be a core player going forward is much better than holding on to some 2nd round picks so I don't see why this trade is getting criticized. The Plumlee trade was odd but he thought Olynyk would be an upgrade so time will tell on that front. I don't know, I think you're making a big deal of trades that will have little bearing on their future. I don't like the stretches, not a fan of the dead money but a lot of it is during a time when they aren't competing anyway and they still have enough cap space to make moves so it's not crippling. My biggest issue with Weaver thus far is not weaponizing the cap space to add 1sts by taking on bad contracts like what OKC did with Favors. He had the right idea with the Jordan trade but pretty lackluster execution by only getting deep in the future 2nds.

Pickett has baby hands, like a good deal smaller than Goff's hands which are below average as is, so I'd be hesitant with him. Granted, Burrow also has small hands but he's an exception.

Perhaps but I don't think the regime should go into next assuming that they'll finish bottom 5 then draft their franchise QB. That's what I mean, there are too many variables that can happen in a year to change the course of things. Holmes and co. can't just assume that they are guaranteed to be in position to draft a franchise QB in 2023, that's fan talk really. Also, Young and Stroud could disappoint, get injured etc. I remember back when they drafted Stafford, there was talk that they should take Curry because Bradford will be even better than Stafford and yes, Bradford was hyped to the moon back then and we saw what happened. I'm not saying that this is a Stafford situation, it was more about hitching your wagon to future events assuming that everything will go according to plan. Point being that everything should be on the table in the 1st round including QB, they need playmakers especially at the QB position.

I expanded on that after you quoted my post. If they are so bad next season that they'll be in line for one of the top QBs, it might be time to move on from his regime. You can give them a mulligan for this season being a bottom 3-5 team in the league but another season like this should be unacceptable. There are no long term rebuilds in football and this one shouldn't be treated as such. In any event, there are no guarantees with future events. Riding all their hopes on a future QB class and passing on a potential one that could be really good in the current class is a risky proposition. Say if somebody like Corral with high level skills but is raw is sitting there at 25 or so, you're getting a guy who is risky but has huge upside if he pans out. For a franchise that is starving for starpower/playmakers, some high risk/high reward should be considered especially since they went so conservative in the last draft building the trenches with "knee cap biters".

I just don't see a big risk in taking a QB with the late 1st especially in a draft like this where the 2nd or 3rd best QB in the draft could very well be sitting there at the Rams pick. Having a franchise QB is an absolute must if you want to compete with the big boys, the sooner you get one the better. If there's a guy they see with franchise upside (even if he's raw) sitting there they should take him because you won't get more value out of that pick than you would with a QB that pans out and the risk is far less late in the 1st. Not saying that they HAVE TO to take a QB but it should absolutely be a consideration. MAybe they'll be really bad next season and be in position to take a perceived better QB in 2023 but there's no guarantee of that and really, if they're that bad again next season, it's probably time to move on from Campbell because there must be some significant progression next season or else, what's the point?

Thibodeaux is playing with a high ankle sprain. He's usually more explosive than that but was hobbled in that game, still found a way to make an impact. He has the quickness, twitch and bend that a lot of the great pass rushers have.

That's true but Ohio State is the only legit offense that they'll face unless they make it to the playoff. I think Hutchinson would be a reach in the top 3, he doesn't have the physical gifts or the proven production of Thibodeaux but he's a guy who can really rise if he excels down the stretch.

I tend to agree. They could have had Sewell and Parsons, plus I think Bridgewater might be a slight upgrade over this version of Goff with a much better contract. The Goff trade was fine but the Bridgewater trade would have given them an impact defensive player assuming they wanted Parsons and more cap flexibility going forward. On another note, saw Thibodeaux on Saturday and while he struggled beating the tackle at times mainly due to a bad ankle, he still found a way to make big plays with 2 sacks (one of them causing a fumble) and 5 tackles for loss I believe. Seems like a good kid too listening to his interview and showed character playing injured when he could have simply sat out for the sake of his pro career. Seems like a legit #1 pick to me. I'd like to see him fully healthy before the season ends to get a true gauge of how good he is.

Here you go again, running another coach out of town. Hey, how about the successful fake punts and the successful onside kick that kept them in the game? No mention of that from you. Also, I seem to recall you hating the previous two coaches because they were too conservative and now you hate Campbell because he's too aggressive. Which is it or are all coaches garbage? This is the bottom line. This is a roster woefully lacking in talent and on top of that, they have had like 4-5 of their best players out with injury for a large chunk of the season yet this team has been competitive in every game outside of the Cincy game. Yes there's been some coaching errors but the coaches are doing a damn fine job all things considered. Zero wins but it's a big picture thing and this is a team that's competing hard so that's at least a bit of a culture starting to be set. Baby steps

This is the first FULL year of the rebuild. Griffin and Rose were on the team for a chunk of last season. The young guys were handed the keys until late in the season. I said that they have a foundation to build off of. Cade, Bey, Stewart, even Lee if they ever play him, don't know about Hayes. That's some solid pieces to build around and a potential superstar. You act like this is the Lions with a bare cupboard to build from. Of course there's plenty of work to do to get the talent level up to the high level teams but this rebuild is still in the beginning phase so it's expected to take time.

The design is to rebuild with youth which usually leads to a lot of losses in the NBA. I don't think Weaver WANTS the team to lose but rebuilding teams usually lose before they learn how to win. With all that said, this is a team that has been competitive last season (outside of the final tank stretch) and yesterday (not sure why you think they aren't competitive) so it's not like they've been getting blown out like a lot of the other rebuilding teams. Bottom line, I don't think Weaver should be judged by wins and losses quite yet. This is technically the 1st full rebuild year so it's not surprising that they still need a talent upgrade but they're getting there. Another high end prospect added to the fold this offseason and some cap space opening up along with the young guys maturing and the team should take some bigger steps forward starting next year but they're going to take some serious lumps until then. It's not like the Lions with a bare cupboard, there's a foundation to build off of with the Pistons.

That's the design, this is a rebuild ya know. I hope you didn't expect them to be good in Year 2 of roster teardown with 90% of the roster being early to mid 20s players.