mtutiger

I don't think much can be done.... The conversation here was probably one of the more civil ones online today, and yet you still have words like "Nazi" and "Pharisee" and "murder" and "fascism" being thrown around. There's just too much division on this issue, which is a big reason why I try to avoid talking about it most of the time.

I mean, Lisa Murkowski literally just came out and said her confidence in the court has been rocked. Make of that what you will.... I get that it's probably pearl clutching at some level, but I doubt that social media is what's causing her confidence to be rocked here.

For one, the fact that Brett and Neil and Amy told one thing to Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins and they did another? Or how about the wife of one of the SCOTUS members was involved in the planning for halting the inauguration after the 2020 Election, yet we're all supposed to believe that member never interacted on those matters and he doesn't need to recuse himself about questions related to that event? Or maybe it's the fact that they kinda pick and choose on cases related to gerrymandering / VRA as to whether it's their role to intervene? Maybe some of those reasons are less justified than others, but it doesn't really change the fact that these are actions that weigh on the court's credibility for a lot of folks. It just is what it is.

I try to be optimistic, but it's getting really hard to be too optimistic at the direction this country is going in.

In the case of the SCOTUS, isn't it possible that some of the distrust may be self-inflicted?

The other question I would have is the cases where there are incest, rape, or life of mother is in the balance.... It's nothing personal, but there's a reason it's hard to get a straight answer on these questions. Because these are extremely complicated issues that maybe require a little more nuance than is generally allowed for at the extreme end of the specturm.

I'm asking what *you* believe.

Who do you believe should bear responsibility if/when an abortion is completed in a state that has banned it?

Does it make me a Pharisee to ask who should be held criminally liable for abortions? Should it all be on the doctor? The Mom? Who? These are serious questions and it's not entirely clear that there will be uniform answers to them if Roe is overturned.

Come on...

Really, really concerning. And ramifications beyond the issue of abortion as well.

The fact that there's so little concern about cases of rape and incest, as well as the life of the mother, among this current crop of GOP Politicians is beyond disturbing and makes it hard to really trust them to legislate the issue in an even handed way.

Exactly. A lot of people are acting like this issue would be settled at the state and federal level if Roe is overturned and there's really no evidence that's the case at all.

Assuming the state they live in doesn't attempt to criminalize going to Illinois for the purposes of getting an abortion, of course.

Just my two cents, but comparing abortion to the Holocaust really trivializes what happened during the Holocaust. And if one harbors pro-life views, it's probably a line that's more of a negative than a positive toward promoting those views. I'll leave it at that.

I assume it would be a challenge to a law in a state allowing for abortions... I'm just saying that I'm not sure why anyone would have any trust in this court to act with any sort of logical consistency....

lol

You think this same court is gonna feel this way whenever someone tries to get it banned nationwide?

There are also proposals in some states (Missouri, I believe) that would attempt to criminalize going across state lines to get an abortion. People acting like the net effect of this ruling stops with states simply adopting the laws they see fit are really downplaying what's gonna come next. And that doesn't even get into the question of who, whenever abortions do inevitably happen in jurisdictions where it is made illegal, gets criminally prosecuted.

Or the mainstream right.

I would be curious to know how sabertooth would feel if another case ended up before the Supreme Court that would forbid abortion nationwide.

Agreed. Of course, two wrongs do not make a right either.

Sure sounded like Tigeraholic did.