2021 Detroit Pistons PreSeason Games

[John_Brian_K]

I like the floor.  A win is a win...even if preseason, I like it.

[Betrayer]

I've heard the tales of Killian in practice, but it's practice against Piston backups and Cade probably wasn't playing either because of the ankle. So, I'll have to wait until I see it on the court in an NBA game. Still though, what matters to me is his jumpshot and defense since I imagine that Cade and Grant will have the ball A LOT. I like what I've seen of him defensively so far in his young career, but not so much on the jumpshot.

As for the court, I agree, the paint should be painted. I mean, it's in the name and everything.

 

[buddha]

3 hours ago, Betrayer said:

I've heard the tales of Killian in practice, but it's practice against Piston backups and Cade probably wasn't playing either because of the ankle. So, I'll have to wait until I see it on the court in an NBA game. Still though, what matters to me is his jumpshot and defense since I imagine that Cade and Grant will have the ball A LOT. I like what I've seen of him defensively so far in his young career, but not so much on the jumpshot.

As for the court, I agree, the paint should be painted. I mean, it's in the name and everything.

 

i want to see him get to the basket and challenge defenders.  no more fading away at the bucket to avoid contact.

[buddha]

i cant see this game, but the box score sure doesnt look good!

[Betrayer]

Rough game. Zero defense and when they tried they fouled instead. Pistons just looked outclassed in every way and Memphis looked more skilled and more athletic in every way. Shot making, rebounding, defense, finishing, you name it, Memphis did it better. Turnovers were out of control because they couldn't handle the defensive pressure.

Killian - I really don't see anything here. Looked the same as always. Broken shot (2-9) and no real contribution elsewhere.

Bey - Just couldn't get anything going, mostly because he couldn't get open against the Memphis D. Went out with an injury after the first half - didn't see anything other than one hard fall but he played plenty after that.

Stewart - He was efficient, had some nice blocks, and grabbed a few boards so he played ok, but the team is going to struggle without an additional rebounder next to him (Grant doesn't rebound). He's not skilled enough to move to the 4 alongside another big, so this will continue to be an issue.

Frank Jackson - Had a poor shooting night, as did most of the team, but he was one of the few bright spots in the second half with some aggression and some nice plays.

Olynyk - 5 Turnovers and his shot was off. He couldn't find space to get open looks (nobody could) because Memphis was faster and more athletic.

Joseph - Played well when he looked to get his own layups in an Ish Smith kind of way. 

Josh Jackson - One of the bright spots. Had an efficient game with very few turnovers.

Diallo - Really had a subpar performance until garbage time in the 4th when he started to show more aggression and ball hog a bit. The rest of the game was pretty rough for him and he had 5 turnovers as well. I think his 3pt shooting last year was a bit of an anomaly. Shot doesn't look smooth at all and he's reluctant to shoot it.

Probably a bit of a wake up call for those who think this team will be in the play-in tournament. Looking at the early schedule, I'm seeing probably 2 wins in their first 10 games and 4 or 5 in their first 20.

Cade could change some things, but he's still a rookie and he's not a great athlete either, which was part of the problem last night (and will be on a nightly basis). I don't know if this is even a 25 win team. They certainly aren't going to win a lot of road games with this much youth. Good news is, that will mean another high lotto pick.

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by Betrayer

[John_Brian_K]

1 minute ago, Betrayer said:

Rough game. Zero defense and when they tried they fouled instead. Pistons just looked outclassed in every way and Memphis looked more skilled and more athletic in every way. Shot making, rebounding, defense, finishing, you name it, Memphis did it better. Turnovers were out of control because they couldn't handle the defensive pressure.

Killian - I really don't see anything here. Looked the same as always. Broken shot (2-9) and no real contribution elsewhere.

Bey - Just couldn't get anything going, mostly because he couldn't get open against the Memphis D. Went out with an injury after the first half - didn't see anything other than one hard fall but he played plenty after that.

Stewart - He was efficient, had some nice blocks, and grabbed a few boards so he played ok, but the team is going to struggle without an additional rebounder next to him (Grant doesn't rebound). He's not skilled enough to move to the 4 alongside another big, so this will continue to be an issue.

Frank Jackson - Had a poor shooting night, as did most of the team, but he was one of the few bright spots in the second half with some aggression and some nice plays.

Olynyk - 5 Turnovers and his shot was off. He couldn't find space to get open looks (nobody could) because Memphis was faster and more athletic.

Joseph - Played well when he looked to get his own layups in an Ish Smith kind of way. 

Josh Jackson - One of the bright spots. Had an efficient game with very few turnovers. Started the second half when Bey went out.

Diallo - Really had a subpar performance until garbage time in the 4th when he started to show more aggression and ball hog a bit. The rest of the game was pretty rough for him and he had 5 turnovers as well. I think his 3pt shooting last year was a bit of an anomaly. Shot doesn't look smooth at all and he's reluctant to shoot it.

Probably a bit of a wake up call for those who think this team will be in the play-in tournament. Looking at the early schedule, I'm seeing probably 2 wins in their first 10 games and 4 or 5 in their first 20.

Cade could change some things, but he's still a rookie and he's not a great athlete either, which was part of the problem last night (and will be on a nightly basis). I don't know if this is even a 25 win team. They certainly aren't going to win a lot of road games with this much youth. Good news is, that will mean another high lotto pick.

 

25 wins...jeesh that is pretty bad...every team has off nights...even the really good ones.

[buddha]

42 minutes ago, John_Brian_K said:

25 wins...jeesh that is pretty bad...every team has off nights...even the really good ones.

this team is not one of the really good ones.

[buddha]

44 minutes ago, Betrayer said:

Rough game. Zero defense and when they tried they fouled instead. Pistons just looked outclassed in every way and Memphis looked more skilled and more athletic in every way. Shot making, rebounding, defense, finishing, you name it, Memphis did it better. Turnovers were out of control because they couldn't handle the defensive pressure.

Killian - I really don't see anything here. Looked the same as always. Broken shot (2-9) and no real contribution elsewhere.

Bey - Just couldn't get anything going, mostly because he couldn't get open against the Memphis D. Went out with an injury after the first half - didn't see anything other than one hard fall but he played plenty after that.

Stewart - He was efficient, had some nice blocks, and grabbed a few boards so he played ok, but the team is going to struggle without an additional rebounder next to him (Grant doesn't rebound). He's not skilled enough to move to the 4 alongside another big, so this will continue to be an issue.

Frank Jackson - Had a poor shooting night, as did most of the team, but he was one of the few bright spots in the second half with some aggression and some nice plays.

Olynyk - 5 Turnovers and his shot was off. He couldn't find space to get open looks (nobody could) because Memphis was faster and more athletic.

Joseph - Played well when he looked to get his own layups in an Ish Smith kind of way. 

Josh Jackson - One of the bright spots. Had an efficient game with very few turnovers.

Diallo - Really had a subpar performance until garbage time in the 4th when he started to show more aggression and ball hog a bit. The rest of the game was pretty rough for him and he had 5 turnovers as well. I think his 3pt shooting last year was a bit of an anomaly. Shot doesn't look smooth at all and he's reluctant to shoot it.

Probably a bit of a wake up call for those who think this team will be in the play-in tournament. Looking at the early schedule, I'm seeing probably 2 wins in their first 10 games and 4 or 5 in their first 20.

Cade could change some things, but he's still a rookie and he's not a great athlete either, which was part of the problem last night (and will be on a nightly basis). I don't know if this is even a 25 win team. They certainly aren't going to win a lot of road games with this much youth. Good news is, that will mean another high lotto pick.

 

i'm worried about the lack of athleticism.  i would say lack of elite athleticism, but i'm not sure this team has any middling nba athleticism, much less elite.

summer league is just a big pickup game, but you could see it on display there too.  they were getting killed by teams who have athletic wings who can shoot.  the pistons have no big time athletes.  none.  cade isnt one either.

you can get by in the nba without them, but its difficult.  cade will need to be everything he was cracked up to be and more.

i dont think killian has improved one bit.  doesnt seem like it.  he needs to penetrate and get into the paint for people to get pulled out of position so he can pass the ball (the one thing he's been good at).  but nobody will respect him if he just fades away in the paint every time and refuses to initiate contact.  and if he's not athletic enough to get to the rim....well....

its only one game and without their top rookie.  that said, i'm beginning to have my doubts on how troy weaver has constructed the team.

but hey, at least we have rodney macgruder on the squad.  i hear he knew troy back in the day and he's great in the locker room.  who else have we stretched and waived today?  trade any more picks to dump overpays yet?  

[John_Brian_K]

2 hours ago, buddha said:

this team is not one of the really good ones.

That I know, but 25 wins?

[Betrayer]

2 hours ago, John_Brian_K said:

That I know, but 25 wins?

How many do you think they'll have? 

Just looked at the Vegas line and it's 24.5, so my guess isn't far off from theirs either. Sure, they have more potential than last year with Cade on the team, but I struggle to name more than a handful of teams I'd expect them to beat.

East: ORL, CLE, maybe TOR, maybe WAS
West: HOU, OKC, maybe SAC, maybe MIN

Even if they won every single one of those games, that's only 23 wins. You could throw in a couple more teams that they'll split the season series with (let's say SAS and CHA) and it would be exactly the Vegas line of 24.5 (we play CHA 3 times). In reality they'll lose some of those games and win some others they shouldn't, but the math should equal out.

Outside of some unexpected talent growth explosion, this is not a 30 win team, and certainly not the 33+ it's going to take to get into the play-in tournament. I think 23-28 is the range, which is why I'm predicting 25.

That's all ok though. I'm expecting a bad team as long as they're growing, developing talent, and I don't have to watch Joseph and Olynyk play the entire 4th quarter of every game like Casey is trying to save his job or something.

[TP_Fan]

How the hell did Cade get injured?  I am so sick of this shit. I’m a maple leafs, lions and pistons fans.  Leafs gonna start the season without their two best players, any player worth talking about for the lions is done for the year a month into the season and the number one pick for the pistons is getting in no work during preseason.  Can’t anyone staying fucking healthy?

[buddha]

2 hours ago, Betrayer said:

How many do you think they'll have? 

Just looked at the Vegas line and it's 24.5, so my guess isn't far off from theirs either. Sure, they have more potential than last year with Cade on the team, but I struggle to name more than a handful of teams I'd expect them to beat.

East: ORL, CLE, maybe TOR, maybe WAS
West: HOU, OKC, maybe SAC, maybe MIN

Even if they won every single one of those games, that's only 23 wins. You could throw in a couple more teams that they'll split the season series with (let's say SAS and CHA) and it would be exactly the Vegas line of 24.5 (we play CHA 3 times). In reality they'll lose some of those games and win some others they shouldn't, but the math should equal out.

Outside of some unexpected talent growth explosion, this is not a 30 win team, and certainly not the 33+ it's going to take to get into the play-in tournament. I think 23-28 is the range, which is why I'm predicting 25.

That's all ok though. I'm expecting a bad team as long as they're growing, developing talent, and I don't have to watch Joseph and Olynyk play the entire 4th quarter of every game like Casey is trying to save his job or something.

i dont expect them to beat any of those teams.  the only two teams on that list i expect them to be better than are orlando and maybe cleveland.  detroit is no better than any other team in the league.

i'm really down on this team.  i dont think they're constructed well and killian is looking more and more like a big miss every day.  bey and stewart are nice role players.  i think grant is overrated locally.  i'm not sure what else they have?

cade better be luka 2.0.

[buddha]

they beat teams by trying harder last year.  if they can keep up the same intensity this year they'll win 25 games because other teams wont care.  but i cant see much more than that unless cade is amazing.

and i think they will spending the last month of they year in full tank mode.  i would expect to see cade's season ending early.

[1984Echoes]

On 10/7/2021 at 11:47 AM, Betrayer said:

I've heard the tales of Killian in practice, but it's practice against Piston backups and Cade probably wasn't playing either because of the ankle. So, I'll have to wait until I see it on the court in an NBA game. Still though, what matters to me is his jumpshot and defense since I imagine that Cade and Grant will have the ball A LOT. I like what I've seen of him defensively so far in his young career, but not so much on the jumpshot...

If Killian is not going to be "all that"... 

I hope they trade him a year too early rather than a year too late...

Weaver? What do 'ya say?

[buddha]

35 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

If Killian is not going to be "all that"... 

I hope they trade him a year too early rather than a year too late...

Weaver? What do 'ya say?

no one will trade you anything for killian right now.  just like no one would trade anything for sekou.

[NYLion]

13 hours ago, Betrayer said:

Rough game. Zero defense and when they tried they fouled instead. Pistons just looked outclassed in every way and Memphis looked more skilled and more athletic in every way. Shot making, rebounding, defense, finishing, you name it, Memphis did it better. Turnovers were out of control because they couldn't handle the defensive pressure.

Killian - I really don't see anything here. Looked the same as always. Broken shot (2-9) and no real contribution elsewhere.

Bey - Just couldn't get anything going, mostly because he couldn't get open against the Memphis D. Went out with an injury after the first half - didn't see anything other than one hard fall but he played plenty after that.

Stewart - He was efficient, had some nice blocks, and grabbed a few boards so he played ok, but the team is going to struggle without an additional rebounder next to him (Grant doesn't rebound). He's not skilled enough to move to the 4 alongside another big, so this will continue to be an issue.

Frank Jackson - Had a poor shooting night, as did most of the team, but he was one of the few bright spots in the second half with some aggression and some nice plays.

Olynyk - 5 Turnovers and his shot was off. He couldn't find space to get open looks (nobody could) because Memphis was faster and more athletic.

Joseph - Played well when he looked to get his own layups in an Ish Smith kind of way. 

Josh Jackson - One of the bright spots. Had an efficient game with very few turnovers.

Diallo - Really had a subpar performance until garbage time in the 4th when he started to show more aggression and ball hog a bit. The rest of the game was pretty rough for him and he had 5 turnovers as well. I think his 3pt shooting last year was a bit of an anomaly. Shot doesn't look smooth at all and he's reluctant to shoot it.

Probably a bit of a wake up call for those who think this team will be in the play-in tournament. Looking at the early schedule, I'm seeing probably 2 wins in their first 10 games and 4 or 5 in their first 20.

Cade could change some things, but he's still a rookie and he's not a great athlete either, which was part of the problem last night (and will be on a nightly basis). I don't know if this is even a 25 win team. They certainly aren't going to win a lot of road games with this much youth. Good news is, that will mean another high lotto pick.

 

Preseason means virtually nothing. This game wasn't an indicator of anything.

With that said, the Pistons are going to be a bad team but we knew this going in as they are extremely young and just not as talented as most other teams. Anybody talking about play in possibilities are completely delusional. 30 wins is probably the ceiling for the team this season.

Edited October 13, 2021 by NYLion

[John_Brian_K]

17 hours ago, Betrayer said:

How many do you think they'll have? 

Just looked at the Vegas line and it's 24.5, so my guess isn't far off from theirs either. Sure, they have more potential than last year with Cade on the team, but I struggle to name more than a handful of teams I'd expect them to beat.

East: ORL, CLE, maybe TOR, maybe WAS
West: HOU, OKC, maybe SAC, maybe MIN

Even if they won every single one of those games, that's only 23 wins. You could throw in a couple more teams that they'll split the season series with (let's say SAS and CHA) and it would be exactly the Vegas line of 24.5 (we play CHA 3 times). In reality they'll lose some of those games and win some others they shouldn't, but the math should equal out.

Outside of some unexpected talent growth explosion, this is not a 30 win team, and certainly not the 33+ it's going to take to get into the play-in tournament. I think 23-28 is the range, which is why I'm predicting 25.

That's all ok though. I'm expecting a bad team as long as they're growing, developing talent, and I don't have to watch Joseph and Olynyk play the entire 4th quarter of every game like Casey is trying to save his job or something.

I guess I am expecting more out of Cade than most people as long as he stays healthy.  I fully expect 30+ wins this year.  I have not broken the schedule down as you have, but like you said they will win some they should not have and lose some they should not have.

You are 100% more locked in to the current state of other teams than I am.  I guess I am being overly optimistic because I would like to see them start competing for long runs in the playoffs sooner rather than later.

[John_Brian_K]

Also just keep in mind this is the same guy who bet a buddy 100.00 the Lions would win more than 5 games this year....not looking that great for me.

[buddha]

Holinger's athletic preview has us at 26-56.

[Betrayer]

Last night's game:

The Good:

Saben Lee - Had a nice game, got into the paint very well, went 4/4 from downtown, and played solid defense. If he can get consistent from beyond the arc, he could be pretty valuable as a backup.

Beef Stew - Much better showing than the last couple games. Maybe it helped that Mitchell Robinson and Noel were both out tonight, but Stew was efficient and grabbed 8 rebounds in his 23 minutes.

Jamorko Pickett - Played well in short minutes and was one of the lone bright spots of the bench unit. I felt he outplayed Lyles who most people seem to think will be a regular in the rotation at this point. Pickett was far more efficient.

The Bad:

Cory Joseph - Although he will occasionally make a nice play for someone else, he's usually just pounding the air out of the ball hunting for his own layups. Too many times I was stuck screaming for him to pass it to the wide open pick setter after both defenders went to Cory in the paint - nope, he just jacked up a bad shot instead. He led the group that Casey ran for way too long in the 3rd and 4th quarter that let the game flip on its head's to a Knicks victory.

Olynyk - Another less than average game for Kelly. He does some nice basketball IQ things out there on the court, but the shooting has to be there otherwise he's just Plumlee with less height, paint defense, and rebounding on a team that needs more height, paint defense, and rebounding.

Diallo - Hami continues to disappoint. I know a lot of people are high on him because of his potential (i.e., he can jump high), but his shot is broken and that was part of the problem with the second unit that lost this game - they looked lost on offense. When the team is healthy, who's the odd man out of Casey's second unit? Cory, Josh, Frank, Hami, Lyles, Kelly...that's six people. My vote would be Hami or Lyles at this point.

Casey - Is it too early for me to complain about rotations? Well, I'm going to anyway because it's not about this game in particular, it's about Casey's strategy overall. His easy-button method of running 2 distinct units by substituting 5 starters for 5 bench players is terrible. C'mon man, use some better strategy than that. I don't want to hear that these players can't play with each other unless they're constantly in the same 5-man unit. This is the NBA, they're better than that and maybe you should vary it up in practice so that's not an issue.

The Ugly

Injuries - Cade, Killian, Bey all out with injury. Starting to wonder if Cade will even start the season.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Betrayer said:

C'mon man, use some better strategy than that. I don't want to hear that these players can't play with each other unless they're constantly in the same 5-man unit. This is the NBA, they're better than that and maybe you should vary it up in practice so that's not an issue.

yeah - that hardly cuts it in a town that watched Chuck Daly mix and match nightly on the way to a championship.

[buddha]

stanley johnson waived by the bulls.

one more time: fuck off stan van gundy.

[buddha]

looks like cade may not play the season opener either.  is this going to be a season long thing?  how long does it take to heal a sprained ankle?

[Betrayer]

2 hours ago, buddha said:

looks like cade may not play the season opener either.  is this going to be a season long thing?  how long does it take to heal a sprained ankle?

Ask Reggie Jackson.

[NYLion]

5 hours ago, buddha said:

looks like cade may not play the season opener either.  is this going to be a season long thing?  how long does it take to heal a sprained ankle?

If it's a high ankle sprain, it could be a 1-2 month thing. Of course nobody knows what's going on because the team is giving us absolutely nothing which is kind of a slap in the face to people who paid a lot of money to watch Cade in person.