CMRivdogs Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 How fast are charging stations becoming mainstream? I don’t remember seeing any at state run rest stops in Virginia, Ohio, or even the Welcome Center on I-75 in Michigan. Hotels seem to be slow about adding them as well. I don’t remember seeing any this week at the “convention” parking lots in Grand Rapids this week. I know DTW has a few. I’m not sure on the policy for travelers who use them on a long term basis. Do they turn their keys over to someone to move their car while they’re in Florida or wherever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 10 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: That's in the ballpark I named...: 720 miles, geographically available recharging stations wherever needed, 1/2 hour to recharge (15 min's wouldn't be needed as much if a full day's drive were within a battery, every overnight would get a full recharge...). I picked 500+ because that’s the approximate range of most full gas car tanks today. But hey, 720 works for me, too! 👍🏼 I wouldn’t mind the idea of EV cars having a 50-or-so-mile second battery as a backup to get you to the next charging station, with a nag to keep you from relying on it too much, but just thinking it through for half a minute, I can see how that might be technologically challenging to do. Just a pie in the sky idea, nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said: How fast are charging stations becoming mainstream? I don’t remember seeing any at state run rest stops in Virginia, Ohio, or even the Welcome Center on I-75 in Michigan. Hotels seem to be slow about adding them as well. I don’t remember seeing any this week at the “convention” parking lots in Grand Rapids this week. I know DTW has a few. I’m not sure on the policy for travelers who use them on a long term basis. Do they turn their keys over to someone to move their car while they’re in Florida or wherever The only hotel charging station I’ve seen was at a downtown Green Bay hotel maybe a year or so ago, there were three units, only one was not Tesla-oriented, and it was out of order. Also, downtown Savannah, GA has chargers placed along downtown streets at a few parking spaces. Great idea, especially if you live there, but expensive if you are traveling through in a full EV, and for me driving a hybrid across the country on 95% gas, not nearly as useful. Edited September 13, 2023 by chasfh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 (edited) I wonder if there is any reluctance for charging stations to put in fast chargers because of potential liability claims from damaged/degraded batteries? Fast charging is still bleeding edge. Edited September 13, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: I wonder if there is any reluctance for charging stations to put in fast chargers because of potential liability claims from damaged/degraded batteries? Fast charging is still bleeding edge. Bingo. They cook the battery. The battery is basically the chasis on EV's. You can replace cell blocks when they get cooked but you have to lift the cab off the chassis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 On 9/11/2023 at 2:31 PM, Tigeraholic1 said: I work for a fleet rental company. We had some big wigs from Ford come do a demo witht the new Ford E-Lightning. Seems fine until you get into winter or hot areas. When the temp dips below freezing or above 90 battery capacity usage drops by 30-40%. Plus he said the Ford Battery system allows for only 25 rapid charges in its life cycle after that you start boiling it and decrease life cycle. Unless you install the large 220 charger at home, standard wall plug charge equates 1 hour gets you 3 miles. I just don't see the current EV technology being a great plug and play right now. I did take one of the the lightnings home last weekend. They are nice to drive and having a Frunk (ford term, compartment where engine used to be) allows for nice secure storage space. I am heading to lunch with some clients in an EV Hummer in a minute, looking foward to checking it out. I will post some pics. The temperature issue is a huge problem for me. They are not suitable everyday drivers in cold climates like Michigan. It becomes terribly inefficient and expensive. They go out of their way to hide that fact. The inefficiencies in the current mineral mining and battery technology probably makes the impact on the environment much worse than our current fossil fuels. I agree that once our technology advances in a decade or so, EV will be the way of the future. The way it is being pushed and marketed to the public now is very snake oily. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIguy Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 I know very little about batteries but there's a company out there named Our Next Energy (ONE) that is currently building a gigafactory in Van Buren Township that claims to double the range of current batteries and make them cheaper by using more abundant materials such as iron and magnesium instead of cobalt and nickle. Range on their standard vehicle battery pack is advertised at 600 miles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 Another factor to take into consideration is the fatigued power grid. You have communities in the cold of winter and the heat of summer struggling with rolling brown outs. Now include most of these homes increasing load on the grid with powerful EV chargers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 4 hours ago, Hongbit said: agree that once our technology advances in a decade or so, EV will be the way of the future. The way it is being pushed and marketed to the public now is very snake oily. It's a chicken and egg thing. It's good to talk it up, get as many early adopters that the current tech can work for as possible, because volume and experience is what moves you along the learning curve. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 (edited) 37 minutes ago, MIguy said: I know very little about batteries but there's a company out there named Our Next Energy (ONE) that is currently building a gigafactory in Van Buren Township that claims to double the range of current batteries and make them cheaper by using more abundant materials such as iron and magnesium instead of cobalt and nickle. Range on their standard vehicle battery pack is advertised at 600 miles. "Lithium Ion" which more or less what's in your laptop computer and which uses cobalt has been most common so far but builders are starting to look more at Lithium Iron Phosphate. And there are a couple of other variations on Lithium chemistry challenging as well. As an example, LiFePO4 does not provide as high an energy density but it uses no cobalt, which makes it cheaper, may be capable of more cycles, and it is also much less prone to burning up your car. The thing about a car is that ultimate performance is not as important as reliability and life cycle cost. It made sense that early models went with the highest performing batts so they could market the biggest range numbers, but I would guess that as the market matures and people begin to understand how they will use an EV in the real world, they will begin to shop smarter. People right now are obsessing about battery size, but that isn't really what matters for most people most of the time, it's only recharge time per mile driven that is going to matter in the end. A smaller battery is fine if it charges just as fast per mile driven, and charging is readily available - and you will go further per kWhr by saving the extra weight. And in fact since it is easier to move residual heat out of a smaller battery package as a practical matter they may achieve better max charge rates. Edited September 14, 2023 by gehringer_2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said: Another factor to take into consideration is the fatigued power grid. You have communities in the cold of winter and the heat of summer struggling with rolling brown outs. Now include most of these homes increasing load on the grid with powerful EV chargers. The grid needs upgrade in any event. Among my concerns about a return to a semi-rural Michigan is the power grid's susceptibility to storm outages. Bad enough that cable and water systems are constantly going down in Livonia where i pay a bill for my mentally handicapped sibling's condo. Edited September 14, 2023 by romad1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 Walking the lot at lunch and I saw we have 50 EV Ford Lightning’s heading to Appalachian mountains for helicopter lineman. Google what these guys do it’s pretty wild! These have the extended range batteries and are AWD. They will all be pulling these pole trailers too. Surprised they are going into the field as actual working units rather than foreman trucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 https://nypost.com/2023/09/12/cops-called-after-jennifer-granholm-staffer-uses-gas-powered-car-to-hold-ev-charging-spot-for-biden-energy-secretary/ To help promote EV's and ease of long drives with them, she used an advanced team to hold charges open for when they got there. Seriously no one could think of a PR nightmare holding up a charger could cause? smh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 2 hours ago, ewsieg said: https://nypost.com/2023/09/12/cops-called-after-jennifer-granholm-staffer-uses-gas-powered-car-to-hold-ev-charging-spot-for-biden-energy-secretary/ To help promote EV's and ease of long drives with them, she used an advanced team to hold charges open for when they got there. Seriously no one could think of a PR nightmare holding up a charger could cause? smh. Should have sent out an MDOT crew to block the space while they repainted the lines or replaced the signage. Granholm needs to have her people talk to Chris Christie's people to learn how to do this kind of thing right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIguy Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 Why not put little wind turbines on top of cars? Not only will the battery charge any time the car is left sitting outside, it would have unlimited range while driving as the battery would constantly be recharging with forward motion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 10 minutes ago, MIguy said: Why not put little wind turbines on top of cars? Not only will the battery charge any time the car is left sitting outside, it would have unlimited range while driving as the battery would constantly be recharging with forward motion. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics would like a word with you... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIguy Posted September 18, 2023 Share Posted September 18, 2023 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics would like a word with you... I saw Tenet, I am well versed in entropy I'll have you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted September 18, 2023 Share Posted September 18, 2023 45 minutes ago, MIguy said: I saw Tenet, I am well versed in entropy I'll have you know. It's why keeping your sh*t together in life is a victory. 🕉️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted September 18, 2023 Share Posted September 18, 2023 16 hours ago, MIguy said: Why not put little wind turbines on top of cars? Not only will the battery charge any time the car is left sitting outside, it would have unlimited range while driving as the battery would constantly be recharging with forward motion. Magnets too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIguy Posted September 18, 2023 Share Posted September 18, 2023 13 minutes ago, ewsieg said: Magnets too! That's just wrong. Everyone knows you also need the two magnets in the back helping push. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted September 18, 2023 Share Posted September 18, 2023 2 minutes ago, MIguy said: That's just wrong. Everyone knows you also need the two magnets in the back helping push. Only on the supercharged models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted September 18, 2023 Share Posted September 18, 2023 Forget the windmills, just add a sail. Imagine tacking your way down I275.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 (edited) This is a good development. We can build batteries and cars without the PRC. This was something I felt would bite Ford and the Gov in the ass if pursued without regard to the National Security implications. https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/2023/09/25/ford-marshall-project/70964122007/ Edited September 26, 2023 by romad1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 8 minutes ago, romad1 said: This is a good development. We can build batteries and cars without the PRC. This was something I felt would bite Ford and the Gov in the ass if pursued without regard to the National Security implications. https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/2023/09/25/ford-marshall-project/70964122007/ this is more about the UAW than China. Ford is just reminding TPTB of the loyal opposition that they can take their ball and go home anytime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 42 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: this is more about the UAW than China. Ford is just reminding TPTB of the loyal opposition that they can take their ball and go home anytime. The political price she would have paid allowing China to build a spy base in Michigan would be off the charts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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