The Gaza War

[ewsieg]

13 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

 

I certainly could be wrong, but my guess is there is no difference in policy with Israel right now if Harris is president.  Democrats would have been better at keeping what's going on in Gaza under wraps better so there wouldn't be as much outrage.  Behind the lines, Harris and her administration probably would have been a little more stern with Israel, but that's about it.  

[Motown Bombers]

1 hour ago, ewsieg said:

I certainly could be wrong, but my guess is there is no difference in policy with Israel right now if Harris is president.  Democrats would have been better at keeping what's going on in Gaza under wraps better so there wouldn't be as much outrage.  Behind the lines, Harris and her administration probably would have been a little more stern with Israel, but that's about it.  

You certainly are wrong as neither Biden or Harris proposed clearing out Gaza and building a resort. Bibi even said he sees eye to eye with Trump and didn’t with Biden. Neither Harris or Biden would have bombed Iran. Biden and Harris would have also forced aid into Gaza like they did before. Israel is showing no restraint now. They had some restraint with Biden. Oh well, uncommitted won. Short term pain for long term gain. 

[ewsieg]

4 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

You certainly are wrong as neither Biden or Harris proposed clearing out Gaza and building a resort. Bibi even said he sees eye to eye with Trump and didn’t with Biden. Neither Harris or Biden would have bombed Iran. Biden and Harris would have also forced aid into Gaza like they did before. Israel is showing no restraint now. They had some restraint with Biden. Oh well, uncommitted won. Short term pain for long term gain. 

I may be wrong, but i'm not certainly wrong.  The public talk would have been different, Trump talks about beautiful hotels on the shores of Gaza.  Of course Biden and Harris wouldn't have said that, but i'm talking actions.  My guess is behind the scenes they are telling Netanyahu he has to stop, in front of the cameras though, they may not be saying the stupid stuff Trump says, but they aren't demanding he stop either.  

You mention Iran, here is Schumer's comments:

https://www.democrats.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/leader-schumer-statement-on-israels-strikes-on-iran

Jeffries on Gaza:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxY_yw3eFFY

He calls for a 2 state solution at the end, but the rest is just saying we need a cease fire, which both sides have at times agreed to and both sides have violated.  It's nice to say, i'll give you that. Schumer flat out gives support to Israel, no questions asked.  These are your parties current leaders and they have mostly stayed silent and when they have been forced to answer, they either publicly support Israel or give general info that doesn't point to anything specific.

Arguably the biggest name in the democratic party right now is Zohran Mamdani and he can't even secure an endorsement from anyone in democratic leadership, let alone Jeffries who represents the same people that overwhelmingly voted for Mamdani in the run-up election.  Gee, I wonder why.

[gehringer_2]

14 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

I may be wrong, but i'm not certainly wrong.  The public talk would have been different, Trump talks about beautiful hotels on the shores of Gaza.  Of course Biden and Harris wouldn't have said that, but i'm talking actions.  My guess is behind the scenes they are telling Netanyahu he has to stop, in front of the cameras though, they may not be saying the stupid stuff Trump says, but they aren't demanding he stop either.  

You mention Iran, here is Schumer's comments:

https://www.democrats.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/leader-schumer-statement-on-israels-strikes-on-iran

Jeffries on Gaza:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxY_yw3eFFY

He calls for a 2 state solution at the end, but the rest is just saying we need a cease fire, which both sides have at times agreed to and both sides have violated.  It's nice to say, i'll give you that. Schumer flat out gives support to Israel, no questions asked.  These are your parties current leaders and they have mostly stayed silent and when they have been forced to answer, they either publicly support Israel or give general info that doesn't point to anything specific.

Arguably the biggest name in the democratic party right now is Zohran Mamdani and he can't even secure an endorsement from anyone in democratic leadership, let alone Jeffries who represents the same people that overwhelmingly voted for Mamdani in the run-up election.  Gee, I wonder why.

Just accept how bad he is. There is a lot of hand waving here in an attempt to paper over that what presidents say in public does matter. The very idea that the leader of the US government would publicly legitimize the forced removal of the entire native population (and one that has been there for 3 millenia no less) is a massive departure from anything you would have gotten from any other admin, Dem or GOP for that matter, and it gives radicals in Israel a gift they could never have gotten anywhere else.

Trump is a walking international relations disaster.

Edited September 2 by gehringer_2

[Motown Bombers]

LMAO the biggest name is Mamdani. It’s September. Schumer didn’t endorse Eric Adam’s until October 29th. If they don’t endorse Mamdani, it will be because he’s a rat****er who didn’t endorse Harris, not because of Israel. 

[pfife]

LOL

[pfife]

4 hours ago, chasfh said:

Maybe a mod should rename this thread How Gaza Got Trump Elected, then we can start a new thread about the war/geneocide/whatever we want to argue what it actually is.

Or... blame everyone but Republicans for Republican policies from the Republican president.

[ewsieg]

2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

Just accept how bad he is.

I have accepted how bad Trump is, but again that's not what my post was about.

2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

There is a lot of hand waving here in an attempt to paper over that what presidents say in public does matter. The very idea that the leader of the US government would publicly legitimize the forced removal of the entire native population (and one that has been there for 3 millenia no less) is a massive departure from anything you would have gotten from any other admin, Dem or GOP for that matter, and it gives radicals in Israel a gift they could never have gotten anywhere else.

Trump is a walking international relations disaster.

Trump says everything you shouldn't say out loud.  1) because even if it is right, you don't say it publicly and 2) because 99% of the time it's not only not right, it's so far out in left field it's mind boggling how he became president.

But back to the actions, are you telling me that if Biden or Kamala was president right now, that Netanyahu would not be doing the same thing in Gaza?  Absolutely no chance because Biden/Kamala would have stopped him?   You really believe that?  

Again, maybe it would be somewhat different.  I'm not saying there would be no difference, but Netanyahu was dead set on doing this after the October 7 attacks and there is plenty of evidence to show that dems may have publicly said more appropriate comments, but not much evidence that they would have done anything of substance to stop this genocide.

[Motown Bombers]

29 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

I have accepted how bad Trump is, but again that's not what my post was about.

Trump says everything you shouldn't say out loud.  1) because even if it is right, you don't say it publicly and 2) because 99% of the time it's not only not right, it's so far out in left field it's mind boggling how he became president.

But back to the actions, are you telling me that if Biden or Kamala was president right now, that Netanyahu would not be doing the same thing in Gaza?  Absolutely no chance because Biden/Kamala would have stopped him?   You really believe that?  

Again, maybe it would be somewhat different.  I'm not saying there would be no difference, but Netanyahu was dead set on doing this after the October 7 attacks and there is plenty of evidence to show that dems may have publicly said more appropriate comments, but not much evidence that they would have done anything of substance to stop this genocide.

No he wouldn’t because he didn’t until Trump became president. 

[ewsieg]

Yeah, Israel was just doing precision targeting of Hamas, not even one Gazan civilian was killed by Israel until Trump became president.  Biden....the other sides dear leader.

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, ewsieg said:

Trump says everything you shouldn't say out loud.  1) because even if it is right, you don't say it publicly and 2) because 99% of the time it's not only not right, it's so far out in left field it's mind boggling how he became president.

Tell me you are not saying that in proposing to dispossess 2 million Gazans that Trump is 'right'.

But I will argue that I do think things would be different. Biden was clearly willing to go around Netanyahu to provide direct aid to Gaza, and granted the logistics of setting up his proposed temporary aid pier into Gaza turned into a snafu, if Trump had not won the election I do belive that at the direction of a Harris admin at minimum US and the US armed forces would have forced the issue of bringing more aid in Gaza.

Edited September 2 by gehringer_2

[Motown Bombers]

1 hour ago, ewsieg said:

Yeah, Israel was just doing precision targeting of Hamas, not even one Gazan civilian was killed by Israel until Trump became president.  Biden....the other sides dear leader.

More people have been killed in Gaza since Trump took over and Bibi is preparing to take it over under Trump. 

Yes, the guy Democrats backstabbed and threw under the bus is dear leader. LMAO

Edited September 2 by Motown Bombers

[ewsieg]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

Tell me you are not saying that in proposing to dispossess 2 million Gazans that Trump is 'right'.

But I will argue that I do think things would be different. Biden was clearly willing to go around Netanyahu to provide direct aid to Gaza, and granted the logistics of setting up his proposed temporary aid pier into Gaza turned into a snafu, if Trump had not won the election I do belive that at the direction of a Harris admin at minimum US and the US armed forces would have forced the issue of bringing more aid in Gaza.

Absolutely not, it's horrible what Trump is saying.  My argument is Biden/Harris would not have said that, but I also don't have 100% faith that they would have done much more to stop it.  While there are many on the left calling for Israel to stop, the main leadership is not as vocal.  And forcing aid, like he did with the floating pier which was a logistical mess and only done because he didn't get what he wanted out of Israel and instead of forcing it, tried a work around which failed.  Pretty sure by the summer of 2024 that was done with, what did he do through January 2025?    Eventually we, along with others, helped set up Aid which we had Israel manage....hmmm, what a novel idea. 

So far the only difference with Trump is that he's saying the awful part out loud, where as Biden either agreed with Israel and wanted to have hotels on the shore too or he completely disagreed with a genocide, but did nothing about it.  I do think you can make a case one is better than the other, I wouldn't want to try and defend it to St. Peter though.

[Motown Bombers]

Not even a week after Trump was president he lifted Biden's hold  on heavy bombs. The two are not the same.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-confirms-lifting-hold-on-delivery-of-2000-pound-bombs-to-israel/

[ewsieg]

1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

Not even a week after Trump was president he lifted Biden's hold  on heavy bombs. The two are not the same.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-confirms-lifting-hold-on-delivery-of-2000-pound-bombs-to-israel/

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-has-sent-israel-thousands-2000-pound-bombs-since-oct-7-2024-06-28/#:~:text=WASHINGTON%2C June 28 (Reuters),not authorized to speak publicly.

"The Biden administration has sent to Israel large numbers of munitions, including more than 10,000 highly destructive 2,000-pound bombs and thousands of Hellfire missiles, since the start of the war in Gaza"

Looked up the number on the shipment that was held until Trump allowed it and it was 1800.  (Note, they were paused under Biden, not stopped)  So Biden gave them 10,000 , Trump only 1800..... yup, these are not the same.