2025 MLB Thread

[Tiger337]

I have been reading Michael Humphrey's book: Wizardry where he explains his Defensive Regression Analysis stat.  According to this statistic, the second basemen we have been talking about had the following runs saved:

Grich 133

Whitaker 101

Sandberg 79

Kent -11

Best second basemen ever:

Frisch 224

Gordon 191

Mazeroski 149

Hubbard 137

Whitaker was 9th.  

Other Tigers

Vina 51

Easley 38

Polanco 29

Gehringer 14

McAuliffe -4

 

[Tenacious D]

Is that a Glenn Hubbard sighting?  His beard game was as good as his D.

[oblong]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

I have been reading Michael Humphrey's book: Wizardry where he explains his Defensive Regression Analysis stat.  According to this statistic, the second basemen we have been talking about had the following runs saved:

Grich 133

Whitaker 101

Sandberg 79

Kent -11

Best second basemen ever:

Frisch 224

Gordon 191

Mazeroski 149

Hubbard 137

Whitaker was 9th.  

Other Tigers

Vina 51

Easley 38

Polanco 29

Gehringer 14

McAuliffe -4

 

Where was Alomar?

 

[buddha]

22 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Whitaker was better than Kent.  Kent hit a liitle better, but Whitaker's superior fielding more than made up for it. 

Sandberg was better, but Whitaker lasted longer.  

Grich was slighly better for a short period, but Whitaker had more good years.  Grich missed more time to injuries.  

Utley was better, but Whitaker had more good years.  

I'd put them all in expect maybe Kent.  I've always had Kent on the bubble.  

You talk about the end of Whitaker's career like it was nothing.  He hit a lot better than most platoon players and it wasn't a strict platoon.  He accumulated enough plate appearances to get 4.7, 4.1, 2.5, 1.5 WAR from age 35 to 38.  Lots of great hitters can't do what he did in the end.  He also could still handle middle infield capably up until age 37 which is rare.  His consistency and endurance was pretty special and I'm not just saying that as a fan boy. 

kent's peak was better than whitaker.  he slugged over .500 for like 8 years in a row (after he started juicing and batting behind bonds).  kent hit home runs and voters notoce that kind of thing.

i dont downplay whitaker's end of career, i just noted that he was much more of a platoon player at that point in his career.

look, i think he should be in the hall, but i understand why he isnt: low peak, low media attention, out of the game after his career, played in a minor media market, overshadowed by bigger personalities on his team.

[oblong]

I honestly don't think those reasons are valid.  He was only on one ballot by the writers and if a lot of the knew ahead of time that would be their only chance to vote for him they would have given him a vote just to keep him on.  They have this hangup about not voting for too many people and there were a lot of players on that ballot.

The various veterans committees responsible for him since then should know better.  That's why they exist.  To correct BBWAA mistakes of the kind you list.   But I think those committees are too small now.  Only 16 members.  It should be more like 30 and they should have a serious discussion among themselves.   I understand the fallacy of "well if this guy is in, then that guy should be in..." because logically there's always going to be a "worst player" in the HOF.  But he wouldn't even be in the lower half of 2B if he were in. 

 

[Tiger337]

49 minutes ago, oblong said:

Where was Alomar?

 

21 runs saved.  

[Tiger337]

26 minutes ago, buddha said:

kent's peak was better than whitaker. 

His hitting peak was better.  There is a a lot of uncertainty in fielding statistcs, but Whitaker ranks way ahead of Kent on every advanced metric I've seen, so I've got to believe he's got a big edge defensively.   And Kent isn't that far ahead offensively overall (123 OPS+ vs 118).  I do understand why Whitaker is not in.  Leaving aside all the BS reasons, he never had an MVP type season which is pretty odd given how many really good sesons he had.   You would think that he would have randomly had one elite season in all that.   

Edited 40 minutes ago by Tiger337