Will Tigers Pony up for Skubal

[irishpack]

13 hours ago, SoCalTiger said:

Here is how I would "fix" MLB and settle the upcoming labor negotiations :

1. Eliminate all deferrals .

2. We don't need a salary cap but we do need a Floor. This will spread the signing of free agents to ALL teams and not just five or six. There are only 30 teams and if you can't spend at the minimum sell and get out. This makes all teams better.

3. Have a "Cap Tax" that is 2 times the floor. Say the floor is 200 million then the "Cap Tax" starts at 400 million and is 100 % tax on the overage and  the teams first round pick in the next seasons draft. The tax stays the same each year but more draft picks are lost for habitual abusers. 

4. TV and radio revenue share. 40  % of every teams media revenue is put into a pot and distributed to all the teams. 

5. No more draft gimmicks. Worst team drafts first etc. Given the "Floor" tanking is  less likely. 

6. Eliminate the international signing period and have a second Draft instead or roll both drafts into one. 

7. Each year the Final four teams must offer a portion of the 40 man roster to the non playoff teams. This would be two  rounds. The World champion can freeze 25 players, the runner up 30 players and the other two 35 players Each. It would be an exciting event at the conclusion of the year and help teams be competitive. 

8. Arbitration is limited to years 4 and 5 and  players are free agents after year five. No draft pick lost or gained. 

9. Rosters expanded to 28 and pitchers to 15 to help wear and tear. We need out star hurlers on the filed and deeper bullpens help smartly managed teams.

11. Eliminate the runner on second ( larger rosters assist this) until the 13th inning. 

10. Make the contract 10 years. 

I like this.  MLB, see what the NFL does.  

[romad1]

2 hours ago, casimir said:

I’d rather see baseball players than one trick ponies.

We all hated Rusty Staub? 

[NorthWoods]

1 minute ago, romad1 said:

We all hated Rusty Staub? 

Le Grand Red was a Wizard at 1B.

[Tiger337]

9 minutes ago, NorthWoods said:

Le Grand Red was a Wizard at 1B.

He was strictly a DH with the Tigers.  He played a little 1B after he left the Tigers.  He didn't play enough there for me to have an opinion on how good he was, but his career didn't last as long as it did for his defensive skills.  Early in his career, he was a decent right fielder.  

[gehringer_2]

13 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

He was strictly a DH with the Tigers.  He played a little 1B after he left the Tigers.  He didn't play enough there for me to have an opinion on how good he was, but his career didn't last as long as it did for his defensive skills.  Early in his career, he was a decent right fielder.  

IIRC, Rusty couldn't run a lick.

[casimir]

1 hour ago, romad1 said:

We all hated Rusty Staub? 

Le Grand Orange is top tier nickname.  Quite possibly first ballot along with Cool Papa and Big Unit.

My larger point was expanding the roster could become an exercise in gathering up more singular purpose individuals.  I’d rather see ball players that help a team in multiple aspects.  It doesn’t mean they have to be average at least in all aspects.  It doesn’t mean a tea, can’t have a guy like Staub or Matt Stairs as a PH/DH specialist role.  But don’t make it so it’s easier to stock up on those types of players and in game substitutions become a rudimentary exercise in flipping defense on the field for offense at the plate back to defense in the field far more often than is the case.

[Stormin]

The theory that the Tigers could get a huge return from the Dodgers in a Skubal trade seems like an over estimate - at least according to Dodger fans.  Many are not in favor of trading Sheehan straight up for one year of Skubal.   The Dodger fans are confident the team can sign Skubal a year from now and not have to sacrifice any young talent.

[tiger2022]

8 minutes ago, Stormin said:

The theory that the Tigers could get a huge return from the Dodgers in a Skubal trade seems like an over estimate - at least according to Dodger fans.  Many are not in favor of trading Sheehan straight up for one year of Skubal.   The Dodger fans are confident the team can sign Skubal a year from now and not have to sacrifice any young talent.

We all know that fans make all the transactions for a mlb organization.  

[chasfh]

36 minutes ago, Stormin said:

The theory that the Tigers could get a huge return from the Dodgers in a Skubal trade seems like an over estimate - at least according to Dodger fans.  Many are not in favor of trading Sheehan straight up for one year of Skubal.   The Dodger fans are confident the team can sign Skubal a year from now and not have to sacrifice any young talent.

Agree. They are so loaded, they definitely don’t need Skubal this year.

[Stormin]

1 hour ago, tiger2022 said:

We all know that fans make all the transactions for a mlb organization.  

True - but the opposite is also true.  People speculating that the Tigers could get a huge return don't make transactions for the Dodgers.

There doesn't seem to be an indication from anyone involved, fan or otherwise,   that a team will sacrifice a top flight young pitcher for one year of Skubal.

• There are reports that Mets Mclean is untouchable
• Reports that Dodgers don't want to trade Sheehan (or even Glasnow)
• Red Sox are reluctant to trade more young pitchers (Tolle/Early)

I am sure the Tigers could get good prospects, but probably not a team's #1 prospect.  The Tigers went down this path on the JV trade when the Astros declared their #1 prospect untouchable (Kyle Tucker) and the Tigers settled for Franklin Perez. 

Edited 20 hours ago by Stormin

[Stormin]

Two part exercise on Skubal / prospect trade possibilities:

Part 1:  Pretend Skubal plays for another team.  Which of these prospects would you trade away for one year of Tarik Skubal?

1. Kevin McGonigle
2. Max Clark
3. Bryce Rainer
4. Josue Briceno
5. Jordan Yost
6. Hao-Yu Lee

Part 2:  Now revert back to Skubal being on the Tigers.  Would you be happy if the Tigers traded away Tarik Skubal for a player similar to the prospect you selected in Part 1?

Edited 20 hours ago by Stormin

[gehringer_2]

37 minutes ago, Stormin said:

I am sure the Tigers could get good prospects, but probably not a team's #1 prospect.  The Tigers went down this path on the JV trade when the Astros declared their #1 prospect untouchable (Kyle Tucker) and the Tigers settled for Franklin Perez. 

Right. The actual comparison is 6-7 War from Skubal in '26 plus whatever the comp pick turns into in the future, vs the value of 2 or 3 other prospects, which  in total still have an excellent chance of giving you less than 6-7 total over any future. If you were a bad team where 6-7 isn't going to get you anything in '26, then take future, but if you are a good enough team that the 6-7 wins gets you to the playoffs and thus a shot at the WS, take the wins and the pick and let the future further out sort itself out.

[Tenacious D]

The Mets are so obvious a destination for Skubal.  They need starting pitching and are trying to win in ‘26. Whether Tarik makes $19 of $32 won’t matter to them.

While before I was ambivalent about a Skubal trade, I now believe it’s essential. Between the arbitration drama and salaries given to Tucker and Bichette, I don’t see a scenario where he stays.

A Skubal trade doesn’t need to be a punt on the season.  Just requires some creativity on behalf of Harris. Would love to see something in this vein:

Mets trade that yields Tong, Sproat,  Williams and Vientos

Torkelson to the Reds for P Nick Lodolo

Sign Framber Valdez to 4/$120M

C Dingler

1B Vientos 

2B Torres

SS Williams

3B Keith

LF Greene

CF Meadows

RF Carpenter

Bench/DH: Rogers, Baez, Perez, Jones, McKinstry 

Rotation: Valdez, Flaherty, Mize, Lodolo, Olson

In the wings: Tong, Sproat, Melton, Long

 

[Stormin]

Some data points.

• Jonah Tong is the the #46 overall rated prospect.  Franklin Perez was the #39 overall rated prospect.
• While not probable, impact players have been drafted with compensatory picks (Kevin McGonigle, Austin Riley)

[Stormin]

3 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

Mets trade that yields Tong, Sproat,  Williams and Vientos

Sign Framber Valdez to 4/$120M

I understand wanting Tong, Sproat, William, Vientos, and Valdez over one year of Skubal.   I just suspect the Mets will also prefer Tong, Sproat,  Williams, Vientos, and Valdez over one year of Skubal.

Edited 17 hours ago by Stormin

[chasfh]

3 hours ago, Stormin said:

Two part exercise on Skubal / prospect trade possibilities:

Part 1:  Pretend Skubal plays for another team.  Which of these prospects would you trade away for one year of Tarik Skubal?

1. Kevin McGonigle
2. Max Clark
3. Bryce Rainer
4. Josue Briceno
5. Jordan Yost
6. Hao-Yu Lee

Part 2:  Now revert back to Skubal being on the Tigers.  Would you be happy if the Tigers traded away Tarik Skubal for a player similar to the prospect you selected in Part 1?

Jordan Yost every day, and twice on Sunday.

[Tenacious D]

46 minutes ago, Stormin said:

I understand wanting Tong, Sproat, William, Vientos, and Valdez over one year of Skubal.   I just suspect the Mets will also prefer Tong, Sproat,  Williams, Vientos, and Valdez over one year of Skubal.

Agree.  We’d either need to add or take Williams out of the deal.

[Tiger337]

I don't get why the recent signings change whether or not they should trade Skubal.  He was very unlikely to sign with them prior to free agency regardless and not very likely to sign with them when he's a free agent.  I still hope they keep him for this year.  The only exception would be if they got some kind of ridiculous offer which I don't think is going to happen. 

[papalawrence]

Someone from the Yankees front office said they inquired and Harris asked for "half of the team" in return. He's pitching in Detroit, at least through the trade deadline

[alex]

14 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

...Mets trade that yields Tong, Sproat,  Williams and Vientos

Sign Framber Valdez to 4/$120M...

 

11 hours ago, Stormin said:

I understand wanting Tong, Sproat, William, Vientos, and Valdez over one year of Skubal.   I just suspect the Mets will also prefer Tong, Sproat,  Williams, Vientos, and Valdez over one year of Skubal.

NOT that I would think any of this can happen - but we could simply sign Valdez first and almost force the NYM hand.

[alex]

8 hours ago, papalawrence said:

Someone from the Yankees front office said they inquired and Harris asked for "half of the team" in return. He's pitching in Detroit, at least through the trade deadline

NOT that this would happen either, but deal Skubal for Schlitter and Weathers. In reality only a few teams can afford Skubal anyways - and IF the NYY do NOT get Bellinger they will be prompted to do something. Then Detroit could also sign another FA SP.

The above two scenarios are fantasy perhaps as our GM/CEO has not shown any propensity to make talent based MLB player type deals. Hopefully this ability is there. I am really suspecting it is not as the Tigers now for 3+ years under his / their guidance and simply have not made any trades for adding proven MLB talents (besides Finnegan).

I am not buying the team is not good enough yet (two years in a row now advancing in the playoffs) or the old 'We need a core' line (c'mon - Skubal, Olsen, Vest, Greene, Tork, Keith, Carp, etc.) is not in place. Those who think once McGonigle, Clark, Briceno, etc. are up and the team automatically will go to the playoffs and the CEO/GM will THEN add FAs and talented MLB players in trades are fooling themselves. It is then, if back to mediocrity and less, they to will be questioning the brass and asking for ANOTHER change.

IMHO, this team has been and is pretty good right NOW and really has not added. I actually think Illitch would add if Harris thought it be the right type of player.   

Edited 5 hours ago by alex

[NorthWoods]

20 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

He was strictly a DH with the Tigers.  He played a little 1B after he left the Tigers.  He didn't play enough there for me to have an opinion on how good he was, but his career didn't last as long as it did for his defensive skills.  Early in his career, he was a decent right fielder.  

lol, sorry.  I was teasing and should have been more clear about that.

[Tiger337]

3 minutes ago, NorthWoods said:

lol, sorry.  I was teasing and should have been more clear about that.

It's OK.  You are new, so I didn't recognize the sarcasm.  

[NorthWoods]

3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

It's OK.  You are new, so I didn't recognize the sarcasm.  

Thanks and my old man memory showed anyway.  I would have sworn it was Le Grand Red, and as someone corrected above it was Le Grand Orange.   I mostly remember him as a bright spot on those Tigers powerhouse teams. 

[chasfh]

11 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't get why the recent signings change whether or not they should trade Skubal.  He was very unlikely to sign with them prior to free agency regardless and not very likely to sign with them when he's a free agent.  I still hope they keep him for this year.  The only exception would be if they got some kind of ridiculous offer which I don't think is going to happen. 

Plus it would have to be a ridiculous offer that makes us better this year, or at least the same as before. Even Sports Freak would call Scott Harris a genius if he could pull that off! 🤣