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03/07/2022 07:00 EST Atlanta Hawks @ Detroit Pistons


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2 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Pistons hang on for yet another win 113-110. Yeah it may not be ideal for their draft status but I am enjoying these wins. 

Yep, don't really care about the tank anymore. The lottery balls will dictate if they get a top 4 pick or not regardless.

The team is coming together mostly driven by the young core. This is a good thing and for the fans, it's fun to watch after years of watching garbage basketball.

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19 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Last I looked it was still chet, Paulo and Jabari in the top tier followed by Ivey and others in the next tier according to the national pundits. Of course their rankings aren't gospel but if you do believe in them then the Pistons will probably need to pick 4th if you want Ivey. If they pick 3rd they'll probably just take whoever falls to them out of that top tier. 

Btw do you think Ivey would be a good fit with Cade? His athleticism would certainly be needed but he seems like he would need to dominate the ball to be the most effective. 

Most of what I'm hearing the past couple of weeks has Chet and Jabari in tier 1, Ivey and Paulo in Tier 2, and then Tier 3 comes after that. Paulo's stock has been steadily dropping - people are seeing a high floor but a low ceiling (Julius Randle comparisons). NBADraftNet even has Ivey at #2, right after Smith, and Banchero at #4 after AJ Griffin.

Here, take a look at the write up on Ivey and tell me you wouldn't drool over that: https://www.nbadraft.net/players/jaden-ivey/

As far as fit, yes, I think Ivey would be a great fit next to Cade. His main issue is that he's not a primary ballhandler so you don't want to try to shove him into a true PG position - no problem, that's Cade's strength.

Ivey has also shown that he's a good shooter off the ball from three and obviously he's a dynamic slasher and athlete on the break or on drives to the rim. He's also a good defender with tremendous defensive upside due to his strength and athleticism.

A team with just one star is going to sit in NBA purgatory. You need a second creator/scorer if you're going to make any noise, so we can't be over-protective of Cade's ball dominance. To me, getting Ivey would be like Paul + Booker or Tatum + Brown or even Conley + Mitchell. Then, if we had a real coach who doesn't sub out the entire starter unit, we could always have one of them in the game.

I think Ivey may have a slightly lower floor than some of the bigs, but he has a much higher ceiling and could be a Donovan Mitchell type of player if he develops. I just don't see any of these bigs becoming an Embiid, Jokic, or Davis. Unless you're getting an MVP type of big man like that, In today's NBA, the difference between all the other big men is negligible and many of them (even guys like Gobert and Ayton) got benched for long stretches in last year's playoffs because they couldn't match up with spread offenses in the playoffs.

I'd rather continue to develop Bagley and get another big man in free agency for now. Plus, the jury is still out on the Grant situation, so that could be another way to get a big man or a draft pick.

Edited by Betrayer
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The flipside is that if DraftNet is correct, then Jabari-Ivey are going 1-2 in the draft and, if we're at #3 or lower, then what does the rest of the Pistons' draft board look like?

I'm just about on board with Ivey as the #2 guy. But again, Smith goes 1 and Ivey goes 2 and we're at a lower draft spot... now what?

No matter what spot we're in, aside from getting #1... we've gotta be thinking on a Plan B IMO...

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IE: Just my opinion but... I really look at Jabari Smith as the only franchise type guy. Ivey-Banchero-anyone else... seem like good players, but not franchise. If we're at #2 and someone offered two 1sts and two 2nds to drop to #'s 3 through... 5? 6? I'm definitely thinking of saying yes to that. Even at 6 I think we're getting a player that is not much different than at #2... 

We won't get that kind of crazy offer... I'm just sayin'...

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On 3/8/2022 at 11:33 AM, Betrayer said:

Most of what I'm hearing the past couple of weeks has Chet and Jabari in tier 1, Ivey and Paulo in Tier 2, and then Tier 3 comes after that. Paulo's stock has been steadily dropping - people are seeing a high floor but a low ceiling (Julius Randle comparisons). NBADraftNet even has Ivey at #2, right after Smith, and Banchero at #4 after AJ Griffin.

Here, take a look at the write up on Ivey and tell me you wouldn't drool over that: https://www.nbadraft.net/players/jaden-ivey/

As far as fit, yes, I think Ivey would be a great fit next to Cade. His main issue is that he's not a primary ballhandler so you don't want to try to shove him into a true PG position - no problem, that's Cade's strength.

Ivey has also shown that he's a good shooter off the ball from three and obviously he's a dynamic slasher and athlete on the break or on drives to the rim. He's also a good defender with tremendous defensive upside due to his strength and athleticism.

A team with just one star is going to sit in NBA purgatory. You need a second creator/scorer if you're going to make any noise, so we can't be over-protective of Cade's ball dominance. To me, getting Ivey would be like Paul + Booker or Tatum + Brown or even Conley + Mitchell. Then, if we had a real coach who doesn't sub out the entire starter unit, we could always have one of them in the game.

I think Ivey may have a slightly lower floor than some of the bigs, but he has a much higher ceiling and could be a Donovan Mitchell type of player if he develops. I just don't see any of these bigs becoming an Embiid, Jokic, or Davis. Unless you're getting an MVP type of big man like that, In today's NBA, the difference between all the other big men is negligible and many of them (even guys like Gobert and Ayton) got benched for long stretches in last year's playoffs because they couldn't match up with spread offenses in the playoffs.

I'd rather continue to develop Bagley and get another big man in free agency for now. Plus, the jury is still out on the Grant situation, so that could be another way to get a big man or a draft pick.

There is a top tier in this draft but it's not as pronounced as other drafts, there's no Cade or Mobley in this draft.  Smith, Holmgren and Banchero all have significant flaws, Ivey too if you want to include him in a "top 4" (his 3 point shooting isn't good btw, it's an issue to go along with his lack of a mid range game). Smith is pretty one dimensional on offense at this point in his career (plenty of room for growth though), Holmgren's frame and lack of offensive versatility, Banchero's long range shooting and defense.

I like the 3 bigs and would be elated to have any of them (Smith and Holmgren in particiular) but I don't think there's a steep drop between the top tier and the 2nd tier of guys like Mathurin, Griffin, Davis, Murray, Sharpe so this is part of the reason why I'm not getting all caught up in the tank, not to mention the odds being fairly equal as I mentioned above, so if they go on a bit of a run here and create momentum headed into the offseason I'm ok with it. I'd like to get a higher pick of course but I don't think there is as much urgency to finish top 4 as there was last draft. They already got their franchise guy in Cade.

 

Edited by NYLion
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18 minutes ago, NYLion said:

There is a top tier in this draft but it's not as pronounced as other drafts, there's no Cade or Mobley in this draft.  Smith, Holmgren and Banchero all have significant flaws, Ivey too if you want to include him in a "top 4" (his 3 point shooting isn't good btw, it's an issue to go along with his lack of a mid range game). Smith is pretty one dimensional on offense at this point in his career (plenty of room for growth though), Holmgren's frame and lack of offensive versatility, Banchero's long range shooting and defense.

I like the 3 bigs and would be elated to have any of them (Smith and Holmgren in particiular) but I don't think there's a steep drop between the top tier and the 2nd tier of guys like Mathurin, Griffin, Davis, Murray, Sharpe so this is part of the reason why I'm not getting all caught up in the tank, not to mention the odds being fairly equal as I mentioned above, so if they go on a bit of a run here and create momentum headed into the offseason I'm ok with it. I'd like to get a higher pick of course but I don't think there is as much urgency to finish top 4 as there was last draft. They already got their franchise guy in Cade.

 

My thoughts exactly. 

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Is Duren part of that 2nd tier?

If you have a shot-blocking interior scorer at Center, then Stew can come off the bench as an energy guy.

If Duren is a 6th pick type of guy (if we end up as low as there...), but he is capable of starting at Center, then you've got Duren at C, Bagley or Grant at PF, Grant or Bey at SF, Cade at Guard, and whatever 3 & D secondary ball-handling guard you can find to put next to him...

Asking for a friend...

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I think I have a little prospect fatigue with Ivey that I don't have with Smith or Holmgren...probably because I have seen him play a lot given that he is in the Big Ten.  I kind of doubt he will be a go to scoring option at the NBA level.  Still, I think you have to put him #3 after Smith and Holmgren as no other wing players have his all around talent.  And he probably fits the Pistons as well as any other team as we could use an elite athlete to complement Cade and Saddiq.  

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14 hours ago, Hart said:

I think I have a little prospect fatigue with Ivey that I don't have with Smith or Holmgren...probably because I have seen him play a lot given that he is in the Big Ten.  I kind of doubt he will be a go to scoring option at the NBA level.  Still, I think you have to put him #3 after Smith and Holmgren as no other wing players have his all around talent.  And he probably fits the Pistons as well as any other team as we could use an elite athlete to complement Cade and Saddiq.  

The elite athleticism is critical when you know you're starting Cade and Saddiq for the foreseeable future.

Think about Hami with a better handle, passing skills, higher IQ, work ethic, and a 37% three point shot and tell me you wouldn't want that guy next to Cade - that's Ivey's floor because that's who he is today.

On the defensive end you need a backcourt mate for Cade with the length, strength, and athleticism to guard the other team's best perimeter player. On the offensive end, you need a guy who can be a secondary creator - an athletic slasher who can drive and kick or hit the open three at a decent rate. Ivey checks all those boxes already with potential for a taller Donovan Mitchell type of player. It's not like Boston is going to hand us Jalen Brown anytime soon to pair with Cade, so we've got to try to find that archetype elsewhere.

If I get a top 2 pick, I'm trading down to get more assets and grab Ivey at #3 or #4. It's a perimeter league, securing your backcourt of the future is more important than adding a big man in my eyes.

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