2025-2026 Tigers Off Season Thread

[Toddwert]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

They were in position last winter and I think this season and the playoffs proved it.  

without the skillful business judo we might have  paid Alex Cobb 25 million 

Edited 6 hours ago by Toddwert

[Tiger337]

Avila was terrible.  When you collect first round draft picks for so long, they are bound get in the playofs eventually.  I expect Harris to keep them contending and making the playoffs consistently.  As far as the last two years though, Harris did not contribute in any extraordinary way.  I think any new GM could have done that.  In 2024, They Tigers had given up on the season and Hinch (who was hired by Avila) was more responsible for the miracle than anyone else.   In 2025, they almost blew it down the wire.  I think Harris will prove to be a really good GM (I hate the term POBO) though

Edited 5 hours ago by Tiger337

[Sports_Freak]

21 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

LOL, There is no nostalgia for Avila.  I think you need to get over Avila.  Are you still agonizing over Randy Smith too?

Jim Campbell and Billy Lajoie. 🤣🤣

[alex]

1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said:

Looking around, Avila's "mess" has us in the playoffs the last 2 seasons in spite of the Harris mistakes. Alex Cobb? 15 million dollars wasted on a team with limited resources. Maeda? Trading for a 41 year old Morton? Or acquiring Paddack? A reject from a bottom feeder team? The Twins garbage. Harris has done a very good job rebuilding our empty farm system but I would never say he's done a good job with the major league team. His lack of bringing in talent thru trades or signing quality free agents is his biggest weakness. Say what you want about Avila but the foundation of the ML team is players he brought in.

I will agree with this. I am not trying to be diplomatic here - but it is Avila's group mostly that we are working with. With said, I do not think he did a real good job with most areas of the franchise. Some here may think he really took us back and/or buried the franchise. I am not totally on board with that but to me he did NOT surround himself with the right people - and he needed to do just that.

Scott Harris, all IMHO, is putting together a solid franchise from the ground up. I will say again he has really helped in several areas: scouting, player development, exercise and nutrition science gains on many fronts (rehab, recovery, etc.), facility upgrades, international look see, waiver wire 'potential' player pick-ups and more. However, I have said repeatedly, he has to show he can acquire MLB talent (not fringe MLB types). It has been apx three years now.

We were not in the position 2-3 years ago to add. However, this team has now been to the post-season two straight years. Both times advancing. Most baseball pundits feel it is a talented team. Harris cannot give the previous statement we want to develop a core first (BTW, he has not done that lately). The Tigers can contend 'now'. It does not mean they will win a WS, but they can contend for it. With said they need to add some talented MLB players. Maybe another bat, a top RP or two and 'maybe' a solid starter.

I have been questioning all along 'Can Harris add MLB talent, via trade or FA?' I would like to see it. The last trade deadline was nothing to write home about, it may have effected the team (cannot say for sure) but on the positive I feel it gave him some experience in dealing with several clubs GMs and hopefully he is better at evaluating real talent (our MLB scouts as well). 

So much of sports is a crap-shot. Injuries are one of the biggest factors (this is why depth is sooo important). The Tigers are close. They have Skubal for another year. The have a core. They have another wave coming of young players (and there will/should be less swing-and-miss). IMHO, Harris needs to add THIS off season MLB talent.

It will be interesting to see what happens. If it shows up, that he does not have this knack, this skill set - then hopefully he can find someone to help him who can. That is also why I ask/question the ability of GM Greenberg just as much in THIS particular area.

Edited 6 hours ago by alex

[Sports_Freak]

4 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Avila was terrible.  When you collect first round draft picks for so long, they are bound get in the playofs eventually.  I expect Harris to keep them contending and making the playoffs consistently.  As far as the last two years though, Harris did not contribute in any extraordinary way.  I think any new GM could have done that.  They Tigers had given up on the season and Hinch (who was hired by Avila) was more responsible for the miracle than anyone else.   In 2025, they almost blew it down the wire.  I think Harris will prove to be a really good GM (I hate the term POBO) though

Some fans blame Harris for the Tigers losing out on winning the division. How many games did Paddack and Morton lose after Harris traded for them? Montero may have done better than Morton (a very low bar) and the Paddack trade never made sense. A reject from a bottom feeder team, it was more of a move just to do something than it was actually a thought out move. And yes, I agree about Hinch. His calm attitude helped the Tigers weather the storm in late 2025.

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said:

No, not 100%. He was pretty bad at player development. And he had really high draft choices. But he did make some good moves and deserves some credit for the Tigers recent success.

Please name some moves Avila made that led directly to the Tigers going to the playoffs in 2024 and 2025.

 

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said:

And I'm really not sure if Chris is putting payroll limits on Harris. If he is, wasting 15 million dollars is even more huge. Limited resources means getting free agent signing right.

Ilitch has poured millions into team resources, infrastructure, and coaching improvements to make us a perennial winner. How would putting the kibosh on spending on players make any sense after that?

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said:

Torres seemed to have worked out but he kinda fell olin the Tigers lap. I mean, 2nd base wasn't a huge need at the time, the Torres signing came out of nowhere. But again, Harris has done a very good job at rebuilding our weak farm system. Hopefully, some of those players will soon help us.

Can I just tell you how much I love that you're giving Avila credit for making the 2024-25 Tigers winners with moves he made four or more years ago, but you won't give Harris any credit for a key move he made this year to make us a winner?

That is some pretzel logic jujitsu right there, my friend. 👍

[alex]

3 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Please name some moves Avila made that led directly to the Tigers going to the playoffs in 2024 and 2025.

 

Again, I am not pro-Avila here, but Norris for Reese Olson was a good deal. That is off the top of my head.

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

LOL, There is no nostalgia for Avila. 

Well, that's demonstrably untrue. 😁

[chasfh]

2 minutes ago, alex said:

Again, I am not pro-Avila here, but Norris for Reese Olson was a good deal. That is off the top of my head.

That was a pretty good nut the blind squirrel found.

[IdahoBert]

I’m tired of all this optimism about the team! WAH! Everybody should be fired!

Fire Bob Scheffing, Chuck Dressen, Bob Swift, Mayo Smith, Ralph Houk, Sparky Anderson, Buddy Bell, Tram, Jim Leyland, Brad Ausmus, Ron Gardenhire, and A.J. Hinch!

Fire Fetzer! Fire both Briggs Sr. and Jr! Fire Jim Campbell! Fire Bo Schembechler! Fire John McHale Jr. Fire DD, AA and especially Scott Harris! 

Grrr!

[Tenacious D]

Things I believe:

-Avila was not nearly as bad as he is often made out to be.  

-Harris has not yet demonstrated that he is the wunderkind that some claim.

-Both contributed to the last two seasons postseason success.

-Ilitch is not cheap, and if we’re not spending to some people’s expectations on the MLB roster, that is Harris making those decisions.

-Jim Campbell never should have traded Jason Thompson for Al Cowens.

[Tiger337]

44 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Please name some moves Avila made that led directly to the Tigers going to the playoffs in 2024 and 2025.

 

He told Harris to acquire Cobb, Morton and Paddack.

 

 

[papalawrence]

49 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

Things I believe:

-Avila was not nearly as bad as he is often made out to be.  

-Harris has not yet demonstrated that he is the wunderkind that some claim.

-Both contributed to the last two seasons postseason success.

-Ilitch is not cheap, and if we’re not spending to some people’s expectations on the MLB roster, that is Harris making those decisions.

-Jim Campbell never should have traded Jason Thompson for Al Cowens.

I agree. And would take back the Oglivie for Slaton trade.

[Edman85]

I don't think Avila greenlights the platoon and pitching chaos that led to the 2024 success.

I doubt Avila signs Flaherty.

Avila rarely claimed guys off waivers if there wasn't already an open 40 man spot, so somebody like Tyler Holton probably isn't on the roster.

Player dev/soft skills stuff/pitching labs etc. really have taken off under Harris. Also, much of the GM/POBO's job is making sure all the different parts of baseball operations work well together. So many are focused on who acquired the player, but who opened things up to make sure the team got the best out of that player?

Does anybody remember the first thing Harris did? He cleaned house on the training side. The team has been one of the healthiest in baseball the last three years.

I HIGHLY doubt the Chadd/Pleis crew draft McGonigle. Doesn't affect 2024-5.

Edited 3 hours ago by Edman85

[chasfh]

50 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

He told Harris to acquire Cobb, Morton and Paddack.

 

 

Yeah, 0 for 3 is a bad result. There are more of them than there are Flahertys out there.

[Edman85]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Please name some moves Avila made that led directly to the Tigers going to the playoffs in 2024 and 2025.

 

Drafting Riley Greene and Tarik Skubal.

[chasfh]

1 minute ago, Edman85 said:

Drafting Riley Greene and Tarik Skubal.

You know as well as anyone, certainly better than most, that Riley was the clear top pick when his slot came up. All 29 other GMs, and you, and I would have made the exact same pick. Same with Tork and Casey, who were both consensus #1s. Every single GM would have made those same picks.

Tarik Skubal was passed on by 30 teams eight or nine times before Avila picked him up. I don't see that as a genius savvy draft move that he plotted out and lie in wait to spring on the world. After all, Avila took Jeremiah Burks, Eric De La Rosa, Hugh Smith, Adam Wolf, and Kingston Liniak ahead of Skubal. How are those guys working for us?

Plus, the issues that Skubal had with his pitching? He had to go off campus on his own volition to work on those because nobody in house here was good enough to help him.

Avila didn't know anything special about Tarik Skubal before selecting him. He was 100% lucky to get Skubal in the ninth round. And, honestly, even Andrew Friedman would have been 100% lucky to have gotten Skubal in the ninth round as well.

OTOH, taking Kevin McGonigle 37th overall is shaping up to be a legit genius move. That almost certainly was not a just a lucky pick. I'm guessing it also took a lot or nerve to sit at the draft table and cross their fingers hoping he passes all the way through.

[Edman85]

Be careful assuming drafting him in the 9th means they wanted the guys taken in the 4th-8th rounds more. The effect of the denominator on draft pools means you may not want a signability risk earlier. 

[Sports_Freak]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

Please name some moves Avila made that led directly to the Tigers going to the playoffs in 2024 and 2025.

 

Probably 80% of the roster? Hiring Hinch?

Edited 2 hours ago by Sports_Freak

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, Tenacious D said:

Things I believe:

-Avila was not nearly as bad as he is often made out to be.  

-Harris has not yet demonstrated that he is the wunderkind that some claim.

-Both contributed to the last two seasons postseason success.

-Ilitch is not cheap, and if we’re not spending to some people’s expectations on the MLB roster, that is Harris making those decisions.

-Jim Campbell never should have traded Jason Thompson for Al Cowens.

Avila was terrible practically all the way around.

I think the main problem was that Avila basically Peter-Principled his way into the big chair, which he clearly showed he was not competent to occupy. He was by acclamation a very good scout, and he was probably a decent lieutenant to Dave Dombrowski. But he was exactly the kind of guy we could have expected to see once Ilitch tabbed him without even talking to another soul about the job.

Compared to that, Harris has already established himself as a relative wunderkind. (Note that I do mean "relative" and not "absolute".) He inherited an absolute mess from Avila and set about figuring out who we had who could still help us, at least in the short term, and getting rid of the others. He is still dumping Avila pickups left and right. It takes time to remake an entire organization up and down, and I get that people are impatient because they always want a winner NOW GODDAMMIT! And for his efforts, Harris has taken us to two LDSes in his first three years, and we are still nowhere close to his vision of peak Tigers yet.

To be fair, Harris has whiffed on several of his pickups, but a 100% hit rate is not a reasonable goal. A much higher hit rate than the the previous guy is a reasonable goal, and Harris has exceeded that quite handily.

And it's true, Harris has not made The Big Free Agent Signing and the Big Trade we all crave yet, but I believe that's in large part because Big Free Agents are still leery of signing here over coastal contenders, a perception that takes time to overcome; and we had not yet gotten to the position where one Big Trade in exchange for top prospects would be the thing that makes us favorites to go to the World Series.

I believe we are better positioned for each right now, although I do think the Big Free Agent is still going to be a lot harder to pull off than the Big Trade. Either way, I agree with you and just about everyone else here that this is the winter Scott Harris has to made a very substantial improvement to the big league roster.

I think the difference between me and just about everyone else here is that I've been willing to give Scott Harris the time he's needed to fix the aircraft carrier and get it turned all the way around toward perennial contention. If that makes me a Scott sniffer in your eyes, well, can't be helped, I guess. But I really do have trouble understanding the idea that Harris is a failure because he hasn't completed the job he has set out to do yet. But, hey, it takes all kinds to make up a fan base, amirite? 😃

[Sports_Freak]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

He told Harris to acquire Cobb, Morton and Paddack.

 

 

Careful....some people give Harris all the credit for the Tigers playoff success the last 2 years. But some people say we won in spite of Harris. 🤣🤣

[chasfh]

3 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Probably 80% of the roster? Hiring Hinch?

Hiring Hinch is a good move, although I do wonder whether, had Avila known the kind of man he was truly getting, he would still have recommended the hire to Baby Doc. Also, remember: Hinch was not Avila's first choice. Only when Pedro Grifol came off the board did Hinch graduate into Avila's consideration set.

All due respect, I don't take your loosey goosey "probably 80%" figure at face value.

[Sports_Freak]

1 minute ago, chasfh said:

Avila was terrible practically all the way around.

 

I don't understand your hatred of Avila. If memory serves me correct, he was forced to trade away all the established (and expensive) players. Did he make good trades? Heck no. His eye for talent was dismal. And he obviously didn't have people around him that were competent. But he's so 2020...or whenever he was let go. Scott Harris has made moves that hasn't impressed me at all. Lucky for him, he had some of Avila's players and coaches to help us win. 😅🤣