Who should be the next Lions OC?

[Motown Bombers]

 

 

[sagnam]

7 hours ago, Shinzaki said:

Rumor on X is that the Browns are working on a deal with Ryan Day

 

[RedRamage]

17 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

McDaniel is considered black. 

Which honestly just shows how silly the Rooney Rule is. Look, I totally get that discrimination happens. Especially 20-30 years ago when it was very much an "old boys" network and owners weren't very "progressive." I applaud the NFL for trying to address it, I just think the Rooney Rule is a poor attempt to do it.

Seriously, would anyone look at this guy and say: Yeah, I totally think people would reject him for being black.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

42 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

Which honestly just shows how silly the Rooney Rule is. Look, I totally get that discrimination happens. Especially 20-30 years ago when it was very much an "old boys" network and owners weren't very "progressive." I applaud the NFL for trying to address it, I just think the Rooney Rule is a poor attempt to do it.

Seriously, would anyone look at this guy and say: Yeah, I totally think people would reject him for being black.

I doubt that Mike McDaniel as a bi-racial black-white man and someone like Mike Tomlin or Todd Bowles as older, darker-complected black men have had the same life experience or would face the same levels of discrimination. Now far be it from me to tell someone else what type of discrimination they have and have not faced in life. But I'd venture to guess growing up that unless you knew McDaniel's parents and saw that one of them was black, you'd even know he was bi-racial.

[Motown Bombers]

Mike McDaniel is the exception to the norm. Not going to base the quality of the rule because one biracial guy who looks white is considered black. Someone like Tee Martin probably doesn’t get an interview. While it’s unlikely he gets hired, if he impressed word gets around. The Rooney rule gave him that opportunity. 

[RedRamage]

1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said:

Mike McDaniel is the exception to the norm. Not going to base the quality of the rule because one biracial guy who looks white is considered black. Someone like Tee Martin probably doesn’t get an interview. While it’s unlikely he gets hired, if he impressed word gets around. The Rooney rule gave him that opportunity. 

I dunno... I will say that I do think they've improved the rule in applying to to coordinators and to requiring it be out of team individuals. It's better than when it seemed like Dennis Green was getting interviewed for every HC job out there without ever being a serious candidate.

But I still think the rule is flawed. Maybe it's better to have a flawed rule than no rule, but I can imagine there are more situations like what we say with the Giants in 2022. You interview a candidate, who's white... you're blown away and you want to hire him, but you haven't interviewed any minorities yet. You can't officially hire him, but you also don't want to let him go and get hired by someone else, so you essentially tell him the job is his, then you interview minorities with no intention of hiring them.

I wonder if it's possible to have some sort of "waiting period" where no new hires can be made? There's potential issues there too, but maybe it solves more problems than it creates?

Honestly I much prefer the reward system where teams get draft benefits for developing minority coaches and executives, vs. the punishment system where teams are required to check a box to avoid fines.

[MichiganCardinal]

2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Mike McDaniel is the exception to the norm. Not going to base the quality of the rule because one biracial guy who looks white is considered black. Someone like Tee Martin probably doesn’t get an interview. While it’s unlikely he gets hired, if he impressed word gets around. The Rooney rule gave him that opportunity. 

Aaron Glenn was getting interviews with the Broncos after the terrible 2021 season. He probably wasn't a serious candidate then, but by 2024 he had developed into one, both on the field and in the interview, and the Jets hired him. Now look at Kelvin Sheppard getting an interview this cycle. By 2027 or 2028, maybe he's the next Jets head coach (lol).

Your objective standard can't be Peter Griffin's border crossing skin color chart. You're going to have some rare weird results, like McDaniel. But if their goal is getting minorities more opportunities it's hard not to see the rule as a success.

[RedRamage]

14 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I doubt that Mike McDaniel as a bi-racial black-white man and someone like Mike Tomlin or Todd Bowles as older, darker-complected black men have had the same life experience or would face the same levels of discrimination. Now far be it from me to tell someone else what type of discrimination they have and have not faced in life. But I'd venture to guess growing up that unless you knew McDaniel's parents and saw that one of them was black, you'd even know he was bi-racial.

That's a very valid point and I shouldn't be so quick to dismiss that he never faced any discrimination just because I didn't think he was bi-racial.

[RedRamage]

3 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Your objective standard can't be Peter Griffin's border crossing skin color chart. You're going to have some rare weird results, like McDaniel. But if their goal is getting minorities more opportunities it's hard not to see the rule as a success.

I remain skeptical. I feel like with the big business that the NFL is today that there isn't the room for racism that they may be have been in the 80s or 90s. Teams want to win and I don't think there's the need for interviews to "discover" candidates. I mean look at Blough, for example. He's a guy with very little coaching experience and yet multiple teams were interested in him for an OC position. How did they know about him if he never interviewed for an OC job before?

I dunno. I by NO MEANS trying to say that minorities don't face discrimination nor am I saying that there isn't some level of racism in the NFL. IT's also easy as a white guy to sit back and say the Rooney Rule doesn't really do anything. I just feel if I was a minority coach who got interviews part of me would always wonder if they seriously wanted to interview me or if I was just helping them check a box. Still maybe if I really WAS a minority my outlook would be different.

[Motown Bombers]

I wonder about Holmes. The Lions story is they knew he was their guy before they interviewed him, but do they even look his away if he was white? Holmes was not on anyone’s radar. I think only one other team interviewed him. 

[Motown Bombers]

3 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

I remain skeptical. I feel like with the big business that the NFL is today that there isn't the room for racism that they may be have been in the 80s or 90s. Teams want to win and I don't think there's the need for interviews to "discover" candidates. I mean look at Blough, for example. He's a guy with very little coaching experience and yet multiple teams were interested in him for an OC position. How did they know about him if he never interviewed for an OC job before?

I dunno. I by NO MEANS trying to say that minorities don't face discrimination nor am I saying that there isn't some level of racism in the NFL. IT's also easy as a white guy to sit back and say the Rooney Rule doesn't really do anything. I just feel if I was a minority coach who got interviews part of me would always wonder if they seriously wanted to interview me or if I was just helping them check a box. Still maybe if I really WAS a minority my outlook would be different.

Almost all the teams connected with Blough worked with him before so they knew him. 

[MichiganCardinal]

2 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

I remain skeptical. I feel like with the big business that the NFL is today that there isn't the room for racism that they may be have been in the 80s or 90s. Teams want to win and I don't think there's the need for interviews to "discover" candidates. I mean look at Blough, for example. He's a guy with very little coaching experience and yet multiple teams were interested in him for an OC position. How did they know about him if he never interviewed for an OC job before?

Blough was a career backup QB. Three teams had already paid him a total of over $6.5MM to not play football on Sundays. He basically built a career as an NFL scout team QB and then leveraged that knowledge into coaching. He was no stranger to coaching when he ditched the helmet for a baseball cap. 

 

Quote

I dunno. I by NO MEANS trying to say that minorities don't face discrimination nor am I saying that there isn't some level of racism in the NFL. IT's also easy as a white guy to sit back and say the Rooney Rule doesn't really do anything. I just feel if I was a minority coach who got interviews part of me would always wonder if they seriously wanted to interview me or if I was just helping them check a box. Still maybe if I really WAS a minority my outlook would be different.

Coaches are always free to decline interviews if they don't feel they are going to get a fair shot. Glenn declined an interview with the Patriots. The Patriots last year were a decent example of how it should not be used, they interviewed Byron Leftwich and Pep Hamilton, before hiring Mike Vrabel.

Back in the day Mel Tucker (lol) declined an interview with the Jaguars.

[Motown Bombers]

Why do I feel like black coaches declined the Lions when Mariucci was hired?

[MichiganCardinal]

8 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Why do I feel like black coaches declined the Lions when Mariucci was hired?

Lions were the first team to be fined for violating the rule when they hired Mariucci. The Lions defense was that they contacted black coaches but they declined an interview because it was obvious the Lions wanted Mariucci.

Because Matt Millen was a ****ing joke.