03/28/2026 8:40pm EDT Detroit Tigers at San Diego Padres

[TigerNation]

36 minutes ago, Dan Gilmore said:

Maybe if the number of successful challenges is high enough the rule will change to allow more than two. A third challenge would likely result in more early uses. Obviously not this season.

The rule already allows for unlimited successful challenges.

[oblong]

1 hour ago, kdog said:

Tork said that they did not act in time to get a challenge. It's like 6-8 seconds and then the ump moves on. They don't let you check with the dugout. They just have to do it and deal with the consequences. Hinch has not put a limitation on anyone.

I believe it’s less than that. Almost instantaneous. One hitter was denied because he sort swung his bat back up to set himself up for the next pitch. Less than 2 seconds. 

[gehringer_2]

34 minutes ago, oblong said:

I believe it’s less than that. Almost instantaneous. One hitter was denied because he sort swung his bat back up to set himself up for the next pitch. Less than 2 seconds. 

It is exactly set up so no one get to see video before the challenge is made - it has to be a player's live judgment vs the Ump's live judgement. I'm actually OK with that.

[oblong]

12 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

It is exactly set up so no one get to see video before the challenge is made - it has to be a player's live judgment vs the Ump's live judgement. I'm actually OK with that.

Me too. And I will grant hitters leeway early on as they have to learn to trust their instinct. The reactions I’ve seen make it sound like it’s part of a deep strategy. I don’t think so. There’s no time for that.  Some guys may see numbers and find out “I would have won these so I will challenge more”. 

[Dan Gilmore]

1 hour ago, TigerNation said:

The rule already allows for unlimited successful challenges.

Sorry, I wasn’t clear. I was wondering if the percentage of successful challenges during the course of the season was high (not individual game challenges) would lead MLB to expand the per game challenges from two to three. Simply acknowledging that umps miss calls enough that two isn’t enough. 
 

It’s been fun to see how close some of the pitches are when the system is used. I agree with the idea of making it active on every pitch-taking the balls and strikes away from the umpires. Seems fairer to me.

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, oblong said:

Me too. And I will grant hitters leeway early on as they have to learn to trust their instinct. The reactions I’ve seen make it sound like it’s part of a deep strategy. I don’t think so. There’s no time for that.  Some guys may see numbers and find out “I would have won these so I will challenge more”. 

The other aspect that is going to evolve is that ABS gives a player his own, custom, consistent zone in the up and down direction. Hopefully you have players who gain confidence in their own judgement in the vertical direction as they only have one standard to internalize rather than every umpire's estimate of their zone. I think there are other things that should evolve as well. I would guess players will figure out that in and down are the places they see as well or better than the ump, while they probably want to feel more certain before challenging an outside call.

[oblong]

I wonder what this will do with pitch framing. 

[casimir]

1 minute ago, oblong said:

I wonder what this will do with pitch framing. 

I would think it continues for at least the short term.  Catchers are used to doing it and there’s no penalty for continuing.  Certainly in a game where the opposition is low on challenges and there’s still the thought that it can help steal a strike here and there.

[Hongbit]

My initial thoughts on ABS are I’m not sure it’s worth it to challenge early in a ballgame unless it’s potential rally extending call like the ones last night with Tork and McGiggity.  

You want to save them for situations where they have an impact on the outcome of the game. That’s typically going to happen more in the late innings.  

I also think it should only be used on a potential strike 3 or ball 4.   

[chasfh]

6 minutes ago, casimir said:

I would think it continues for at least the short term.  Catchers are used to doing it and there’s no penalty for continuing.  Certainly in a game where the opposition is low on challenges and there’s still the thought that it can help steal a strike here and there.

Pitch framing will be a thing as long as there is any discretion allowed for umpires calling pitches. Only once there is a total robot ump regime will pitch framing cease.

[chasfh]

5 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

My initial thoughts on ABS are I’m not sure it’s worth it to challenge early in a ballgame unless it’s potential rally extending call like the ones last night with Tork and McGiggity.  

You want to save them for situations where they have an impact on the outcome of the game. That’s typically going to happen more in the late innings.  

I also think it should only be used on a potential strike 3 or ball 4.   

Agree with all this. A lot of people believe Kevin should have challenged the strike three call to start the second inning, but I can see the logic of his not asking for a challenge right then, given how low leverage a situation it was and, thus, how high the marginal cost of being wrong would have been.

Edited 2 hours ago by chasfh

[gehringer_2]

10 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Agree with all this. A lot of people believe Kevin should have challenged the strike three call to start the second inning, but I can see the logic of his not asking for a challenge right then, given how low leverage a situation it was and, thus, how high the marginal cost of being wrong would have been.

that's the thing about a baseball game though - runs in the 1st count just as much as runs later and any pitcher can end up on the ropes at any point in a game, so I guess I'd just as soon press any advantage at any point. But I will admit there is a difference between burning your 1st and your last challenge. If a game looks like it's going to stay close I'm more on board with trying to keep the last challenge in your back pocket.

[gehringer_2]

19 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Pitch framing will be a thing as long as there is any discretion allowed for umpires calling pitches. Only once there is a total robot ump regime will pitch framing cease.

agree. ABS will just act as a limit to how bad a pitch you are likely to be able to 'promote' 

[Hongbit]

8 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

that's the thing about a baseball game though - runs in the 1st count just as much as runs later and any pitcher can end up on the ropes at any point in a game, so I guess I'd just as soon press any advantage at any point. But I will admit there is a difference between burning your 1st and your last challenge. If a game looks like it's going to stay close I'm more on board with trying to keep the last challenge in your back pocket.

The run counts the same regardless of inning but its impact on win probability does not. 

[gehringer_2]

7 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

The run counts the same regardless of inning but its impact on win probability does not. 

that's a kind of statistical paradox  though. The win probability due to a given run is not a constant. A run in the 1st may be adding a small "X" to win probability in the 1st, but if that run is still the margin in the 9th that same run is now adding X * Y - a  lot more to win probability. But it's the same run. It's not when you scored it that mattered.

Edited 1 hour ago by gehringer_2

[oblong]

29 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

agree. ABS will just act as a limit to how bad a pitch you are likely to be able to 'promote' 

My question was more about any value you place on a catcher for being “good” at it. Is that a thing?  I don’t know. 

[gehringer_2]

10 minutes ago, oblong said:

My question was more about any value you place on a catcher for being “good” at it. Is that a thing?  I don’t know. 

I guess a related question is will ABS drive the umpires to be better? To the degree it does, that would have to degrade the value of framing as it would mean umpires are getting harder to fool.

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

that's the thing about a baseball game though - runs in the 1st count just as much as runs later and any pitcher can end up on the ropes at any point in a game, so I guess I'd just as soon press any advantage at any point.

True though this might be in theory—even if it's based on reality—in practice, anyone, including you and me, would be far less likely to press for a challenge on a call we're not 100% sure of in the first inning in the interest of keeping our powder dry for challenges late in the game when we need them in game situations with higher leverage—which, a tie game lead in the eighth or ninth innings is situationally higher leverage than the same tie score in the first or second innings.

[monkeytargets39]

I’m of the opinion that if there’s a questionable call early even in low leverage, it’s worth challenging.  What if it gets reversed and leads to the SP having to throw 10 more pitches that inning?  That could be a lot more impactful on the outcome of a game than making Mason Miller throw one more unhittable pitch.