tiger2022 Posted August 2 Posted August 2 Just now, NorthWoods said: When did I say I was mad at him? Lol, just making bs up. I said I would take Lolich every time. I think any honest team builder would. Lolich is going to give me 40 starts and 25 complete games a season with an ERA+ of 115. The value of that in today's game would be crazy high. Lolich would not give you 40 starts in 2026. He would be brought up the same as other guys in this era, be condotioned to throw 90 to 100 pitches a game, go 6 innings and turn it over to the bullpen. I'm sure he's just going to walk in and throw 320 innings. And his fastball might have been nice in 1970, but it would below average in today's game. A little bit of honesty to yourself maybe. Quote
Tiger337 Posted August 2 Posted August 2 8 minutes ago, tiger2022 said: I'll take Old Hoss Radbourne with a 2 year peak of 32.3 WAR. Anyone honestly think Old Hoss could pitch in today's game? I see that argument all the time and I think it's one of the weakest baseball arguments. If Radbourne played today, he would have been a very different athete with all the modern benefits that players have today - advantaned training, healthcare, technology, etc. I think any superstar from past eras would have succeeded today. Quote
Tenacious D Posted August 2 Posted August 2 The issue with Skubal is his general inability to get past the 7th inning, and often times the 6th. Not as a big of an issue with a league average bullpen, but was problematic this season. Not going to lie—appreciate everything Skubal accomplished, but still bugs me that he came out after the 6th inning in Game 5. Ironic that he’ll be teammates with Yamamoto—maybe it will rub off on him. 1 Quote
tiger2022 Posted August 2 Posted August 2 Just now, Tiger337 said: I see that argument all the time and I think it's one of the weakest baseball arguments. If Radbourne played today, he would have been a very different athete with all the modern benefits that players have today - advantaned training, healthcare, technology, etc. I think any superstar from past eras would have succeeded today. Old Hoss was 5-9. I'm sure he would be a great pitcher in 2026. Quote
gehringer_2 Posted August 2 Posted August 2 1 hour ago, Tenacious D said: 25% K rate is not that egregious. the thing is he's got swing and miss but he also has some contact skill and a reasonable walk rate, some hitterish stuff in there along with the power and K's - so well see. Quote
Tiger337 Posted August 2 Posted August 2 Just now, tiger2022 said: Old Hoss was 5-9. I'm sure he would be a great pitcher in 2026. Another lazy argument. most people are taller today. If he was born in 2000, he would probably have been a lot taller. Quote
tiger2022 Posted August 2 Posted August 2 1 minute ago, Tenacious D said: The issue with Skubal is his general inability to get past the 7th inning, and often times the 6th. Not as a big of an issue with a league average bullpen, but was problematic this season. Not going to lie—appreciate everything Skubal accomplished, but still bugs me that he came out after the 6th inning in Game 5. Ironic that he’ll be teammates with Yamamoto—maybe it will rub off on him. The starting pitcher is expected to go 5 or 6 innings. That's why there are 8 or 9 guys in the bullpen. All the posters on here seem to think Skubal should just throw 250 innings and tell the team and manager to go to hell because he is just going to stay in the game instead of coming out after he hits the limits he's been conditioned to hit. 1 Quote
tiger2022 Posted August 2 Posted August 2 (edited) 1 minute ago, Tiger337 said: Another lazy argument. most people are taller today. If he was born in 2000, he would probably have been a lot taller. Not really. But if you want to believe Old Hoss would be a stud today, have at it. Makes no difference to me. Edited August 2 by tiger2022 Quote
buddha Posted August 2 Posted August 2 15 minutes ago, NorthWoods said: When did I say I was mad at him? Lol, just making bs up. I said I would take Lolich every time. I think any honest team builder would. Lolich is going to give me 40 starts and 25 complete games a season with an ERA+ of 115. The value of that in today's game would be crazy high. imagine what skubal's stats would be on a raised mound. Quote
Tenacious D Posted August 2 Posted August 2 3 minutes ago, tiger2022 said: The starting pitcher is expected to go 5 or 6 innings. That's why there are 8 or 9 guys in the bullpen. All the posters on here seem to think Skubal should just throw 250 innings and tell the team and manager to go to hell because he is just going to stay in the game instead of coming out after he hits the limits he's been conditioned to hit. Yes, things have changed. Higher stress through velocity and spin rates. My issue was specific to a playoff elimination game. He should have told Hinch there was no way he was not going start the 7th inning. Quote
NorthWoods Posted August 2 Posted August 2 5 minutes ago, tiger2022 said: Lolich would not give you 40 starts in 2026. He would be brought up the same as other guys in this era, be condotioned to throw 90 to 100 pitches a game, go 6 innings and turn it over to the bullpen. I'm sure he's just going to walk in and throw 320 innings. And his fastball might have been nice in 1970, but it would below average in today's game. A little bit of honesty to yourself maybe. So your "honesty " for me would be that the pitcher that faced Frank Robinson, Harmon Killebrew, Boog Powell, Reggie Jackson, etc, etc, etc couldn't cut it against today's hit machines? And going back to remake him as a 6 inning pitcher is revisionist history, he did what he did. Quote
Tiger337 Posted August 2 Posted August 2 2 minutes ago, tiger2022 said: Not really. But if you want to believe Old Hoss would be a stud today, have at it. Makes no difference to me. Yes, I will keep believing that. If you want to believe that they can put Hoss into a time machine and transport him to today's game that is fine with me. Quote
NorthWoods Posted August 2 Posted August 2 8 minutes ago, tiger2022 said: Old Hoss was 5-9. I'm sure he would be a great pitcher in 2026. Ever heard of Ron Guidry? Baseball players and stars come in all sizes. Quote
NorthWoods Posted August 2 Posted August 2 7 minutes ago, tiger2022 said: he hits the limits he's been conditioned to hit. Nothing stops him from conditioning himself to go longer. In other words to exceed expectations Quote
Tiger337 Posted August 2 Posted August 2 2 minutes ago, buddha said: imagine what skubal's stats would be on a raised mound. Lolich pitched much of his career on the lower mound, but the point is you can not diretly compare players from different eras. Quote
gehringer_2 Posted August 2 Posted August 2 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: LOL - Miguel was a fat guy that should not have been fat. Thome was just thick. I see the comparison to Puckett but to me Hope looks more like Bo Jackson than Puckett, he's got a running back's body. Funny thing is that I was the guy that thought Mike Trout (also thick build) might be prone to go fat when I first saw him. Trout's had terrible injury luck but not because he didn't control his weight. Edited August 2 by gehringer_2 Quote
NorthWoods Posted August 2 Posted August 2 2 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Lolich pitched much of his career on the lower mound, but the point is you can not diretly compare players from different eras. The Lolich stats I posted were ALL on the lowered mound Quote
monkeytargets39 Posted August 2 Posted August 2 Aside from the Skubal deal, this trade deadline has been a giant zilch. Let’s go guys, only 25 hours left. Quote
SeattleMike Posted August 2 Posted August 2 4 hours ago, Sports_Freak said: Hope has really good AA numbers. AA.....I would call him a solid...prospect. So was Daz Cameron. And Franklin Perez. I sure hope Hope becomes a MLB All Star but it may be a ways off. Daz Cameron had one good year in the minors. Hope has been consistently productive. I trust the guys who have been consistently good over the ones with one breakout year. For what that is worth. 1 Quote
SeattleMike Posted August 2 Posted August 2 4 hours ago, lordstanley said: Doolittle of ESPN.com gives trade grades of A to the Dodgers, D to the Tigers and non-Dodgers baseball fans an F. He also mentions the Tigers' "July collapse" (huh, 1-4 stretch is all I can think of) though. https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/49469642/mlb-trade-deadline-grades-2026-tarik-skubal-los-angeles-dodgers-detroit-tigers-blockbuster July collapse? Maybe he meant May, otherwise how embarrassing for a guy who gets paid to look at Baseball Reference. Quote
Tiger337 Posted August 2 Posted August 2 2 minutes ago, SeattleMike said: Daz Cameron had one good year in the minors. Hope has been consistently productive. I trust the guys who have been consistently good over the ones with one breakout year. For what that is worth. Statistically, Hope is one of the best hitting prospects they have ever acquired via trade in my lifetime. I don't believe he has the scouting grades of Clark and McGonigle, but he is intriguing. Quote
AlaskanTigersFan Posted August 2 Posted August 2 We just traded 2 months of control for 14 years of control. Let that sink in. Amazing deal for the Tigers. Now they need to move Torres and Mize. I hope they send Mize to the Rays for Hopkins and Xavier Isaac. Quote
diaspora04 Posted August 2 Posted August 2 1 hour ago, Tiger337 said: You don't like Jimmy because you don't understand intangibles. Also, I hear he crossed Deuce, so returning to Toledo may not be an option . . . unless Outman makes things right. It must not have been a big deal, though, because Outman never went missing or anything. Quote
diaspora04 Posted August 2 Posted August 2 5 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Statistically, Hope is one of the best hitting prospects they have ever acquired via trade in my lifetime. I don't believe he has the scouting grades of Clark and McGonigle, but he is intriguing. As in? Quote
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