mtutiger

OK. I understand the skepticism, but am open to the idea that this is much different. Particularly based on the interest that our NATO allies in the Baltics and Poland have. As well as the unity that is currently being shown by NATO/EU.

Because? At the end of the day, its one country invading another that does not want to be invaded. Seems like more of a parallel than anything involving us.

Spot on. Theres also the matter of our NATO allies that are former Republics or are bordering Russia/Belarus... if we do all this work to unify NATO to only turn around and just accept a subjugated Ukraine, that seems kinda counterproductive. I dont think there's a scenario where NATO will ever accept a subjugated Ukraine as legitimate. And I would imagine the aid will keep pouring in

Ukraine already has a democracy and vote. And wants that democracy and vote. The issue, literally the only reason this conflict is happening, is that the leader of Russia, who fancies himself a modern day Tsarist, can't accept that. We aren't the main player and driving this, Russia is. So it seems that the Iraq comparison falls on them, not us

Just to be clear, while I think this situation is a lot different than Georgia and Crimea in terms of scope and stakes, which may impact the severity of sanctions that are ultimately levied or the resolve of US/EU/NATO members, I understand people's skepticism based on that history. Its put up or shut up time for the west. What I dont really see is a path to a Russian-puppet government in Ukraine that doesn't inflict a large amount of damage in terms of blood and finances for Russia. It's one thing to claim South Ossetia, another to claim the 36th largest country in the world, especially where most of the country hates you. Iraq serves as a great example of that IMO.

The only way the comparison to Iraq seems valid would be with respect to the country who seems to want to subjugate a country of 43 million where most of the residents seem to disapprove of them

May be the first time I've ever seen Kasparov remotely satisfied with a sanctions regime...

Yeah, I think we may be just a tad dismissive of Ukraine's willingness to fight this out. Particularly given that, if anything, views of Russia have declined over the past eight years. Russia has the resources to win out, of course... but I dont know, I dont see a country where close to 70% of the population harboring negative attitudes toward Russia just accepting subjugation

There you go... he'd have just given Putin Ukraine on a silver platter...

Sometimes you don't get ideal options...

I don't see the US declaring war. But aside from just letting Putin do whatever the hell he wants, I don't see many other alternatives to severe sanctions. Particularly given that the behavior is habitual and recidivist at this point. And particularly when he's openly musing about reconstituting the Russia of old.

I'm prepared to be underwhelmed, but this is spot on.

Ahh, we have to wait for the lunatic to decide what he wants to do. Awesome

Within Russia itself, I don't know. But it doesn't surprise me coming from Putin... Steven Lee Meyers (of the NYT) wrote a book about him a few years back that really emphasized that Tsarism was more his north star than the Soviet years

The reactions from the right about how Trump would handle this are something else... The guy literally blackmailed Ukraine with weapons they need for defense. That tells me everything I need to know about how Trump would handle this.

That's the one. I'd call her a "useful idiot", but I'm not sure "useful" fits the bill

Another one who must be on the take...

We should probably rename the Vlad thread "Cleanup on Aisle Lunatic 2: Electric Boogaloo"

After all of this, It really was never about NATO membership... he's just mad that the USSR collapsed and many of the Republics went their own separate way. What a small, small man.

In his address now, Putin doesnt sound like a guy who feels that *any* former Republics are legitimate, let alone Ukraine. If I'm the Baltics, do I really believe that NATO membership means I'm untouchable to this unhinged man?

Good for her....

Prince Frozen Dinner has thoughts on entitlement...

I wonder if we'll get the same amount of hours and A1 above-the-fold stories for this records scandal as we did for the last one 🤔

But (yeah) Her (yeah) Emails (yeah) (Yeah, yeah)