mtutiger

Starting to see movement, but I can already predict that this won't go far enough for some folks considering that local districts may still require them.

I'm not really presenting a vision more than the status quo as it currently exists may not be as unpopular as some seem to believe. Whether that remains the case in time? I dont know. I just see a lot of dialogue (mostly on social media and in mainstream media) about how politically suicidal mask mandates in schools are when there is data out there that, at this current point in time, give or take a couple of weeks, that suggests that it isn't. And ultimately, it may take public opinion moving in order to see these mask mandates go. That may happen when Omicron fades, we shall see.

To be clear, I think everyone wants COVID/Masks to end. I certainly want it all to end. But the population at-large may be savvy enough to be able to distinguish between what they want and what they feel is necessary. Certainly the poll referenced from Texas earlier would suggest that.

This would have been a career-ender not all that long ago... but we live in strange times

But ultimately, while the CDC needs can issue guidance (and maybe they should revise their guidance!), we don't have a system where the feds can tell all schools what to do or not do. At the state level they are trying in some, but even here a lot of districts (including ones that aren't exactly liberal hot beds) haven't always followed suit and have defied that order at points of time. Ultimately, I don't think mask mandates go away until the general public in all of these individual school districts and communities start to demand it in a meaningful way. And I just dont think we are there yet... ultimately its gonna take putting Omicron fully behind us before I see it happening

I think this is right.

With respect to this mask mandate discussion, I decided to go ahead and consult the crosstabs of the latest poll of the red state that I reside in (survey taken during mid- late January by Dallas Morning News/UT-Tyler) - https://www.uttyler.edu/politicalscience/files/dmn-uttyler-jan2022.pdf) On the question of whether masking in schools, require/allow schools to decide was combined for 69% of respondents, 25% said no mandate at all. Local governments being allowed to require masks in some public places was 57-35 in support. Again, this isn't New York or Illinois or California. This is Texas. When I see numbers like this and then I see this debate about how long masking should go on and how unpopular it is broadly, it just doesn't seem tethered to reality. There will be an inflection point most likely where masks will be underwater. Particularly if Omicron crashes and burns. We just aren't there yet.

Pretty much. After the last parliamentary election, a lot of the American commentariat (particularly GOP commentariat) seemed to suggest that the CP would never lose another election again in the UK. This scandal sort of shows that while polarization may be a factor elsewhere, applying American conventional wisdom about polarization to an entirely different population and political system isn't wise.

Between how nasty and personal politics has become in today's age, where it seems primarily driven on culture versus bread and butter issues, as well as the fact that lower level positions are generally don't pay much, there's little incentive to get into the game unless you are either wealthy or a sociopath. Or both. Chris Sununu's (NH Governor) comments about why he passed up a run for US Senate were kinda telling as well... basically said he didn't think going to Washington just to do whatever Mitch McConnell tells him to do was fulfilling enough to give up his current job. He's in the opposite party, but he's a reasonable guy overall and I respect his views on that.

Was just thinking about this recently - as you suggest, more people hate the parties (and party leaders) more than ever. While simultaneously, many of them, more than ever, will fight tooth and nail to defend them from just about anything. Definitely a both sides thing, but I swear if I had a dollar for eveytime I've heard "I dont like Trump, but..." over the last five years, I could retire five years earlier.

On the flip side, there's a tendency in social media to see the most extreme views from some posters and just blanket apply it to everyone that gets sort of tiring. Just because one poster (or some Twitter rando for that matter) has a position on people who are right of center doesn't mean that everyone left of center feels the same way. The vice versa is true as well - despite what a couple of posters on this board seem to believe, not every Democrat or person who voted for Biden is a socialist who hates America. I really believe that, deep down, most people in the middle are reasonable and can respectfully discuss the issues where they disagree.

The difference is that there are actual political consequences in the UK apparently.

Thank you for your service... Just from my experience, some went to the military or were stuck around town, but a lot went to college in-state and ended up either the Tri-Cities or in other areas of the state (particularly GR/Western MI). In general, I wish I could solve the problem of brain drain out of rural areas, but I'm not a demographer.

I grew up rural and managed to do neither. FWIW.

But if you buy the good from Walmart, you are directly benefitting the people who have tangible goods they sell at Walmart. Seems pretty clear that we are all culpable. For better or worse.

Be that as it may, millions of Americans, including many in your neck of the woods, do business with Walmart daily. Applying the same standard you are applying to Neil Young, you seem to be suggesting that anybody who shops at a Walmart are condoning of China's actions against the Uyghurs. Let's just put it this way: if we all are held to that standard, for better or worse, we all are gonna fail it. Every last one of us. You fail it, and I fail it.

I assume they do business with Walmart too. Or is that different?

You quoted me in that response. And I dont despise you. I won't defend China. Their actions with the Uyghurs are horrific. I just don't understand what that has to do with something completely different transpiring between artists who are making business decisions about how they market their product and which content providers they do business with. I guess it's meme-able or something, idk.

Why so you keep saying this? I can't speak for others, but I try to discuss this stuff respectfully and without regard for 'red states' or any of that stuff. My only point is that Neil Young or Joni Mitchell or whoever are free to do business with whoever they like. Thats capitalism. And a lot of folks seem offended by that, for reasons that I cannot figure out.

Maybe one expects more from the party that, up until 5 mins ago, claimed they were against government intrusion into local matters.

And, to the extent that policies on masks have anything to do with politics, when the majority nationally *wants* them to end. I understand Buddha's perspective here, and the science with this new variant as to the efficacy of masking seems to suggest that they are less effective against Omicron, but again, when things like requiring masks in school go from being a "55%" issue to a "30%" issue, maybe you will see more movement. As it exists, we aren't there yet. Maybe if Omicron continues to fade, the ground will shift.

Not sure if this is directed at me or not, I dont doubt any of what you are saying. I'm just suggesting that we are a large country and what people in Allen County want may be different than what someone in Chesterfield County VA wants. As for us here in Texas, we've had schools shut down, even in red areas, for days at a time on account of this latest outbreak. I'm sure there are reasons for that, who knows.

I would just add that, in terms of Virginia, I saw a map of the counties who were ignoring the Governors order on Twitter... and it wasn't just blue ones. Again, I don't think that would be happening if this issue were just "shirts and skins" at this point. Even though it's often how it gets portrayed

This has been a continual gripe of mine throughout this pandemic. Republicans used to hate big government and love local control... now they seem to just talk about hating big government in Washington while telling local governments how to run themselves at the state level. In terms of things like mask orders, again, policies may reflect more the desires of the community than some are willing to recognize.

This probably fits well with the discussion going on over in the actual COVID thread, but I almost think that people just assume that it's big government or teachers driving decisions on masks when the decisions may just reflect the wishes of the majority in communities where rules are put into place. And that's seems to be reflected in polling - Americans are shifting on COVID precautions, but masking is still above water nationally. Let's see where we're at after Omicron fades.... maybe then we'll get discussions about transitioning from "pandemic" to "endemic"