Motor City Sonics Posted April 26, 2023 Share Posted April 26, 2023 Is Bill Belichick really the best coach ever? I'll make the case that he has not done anything without Tom Brady, even in mid career, when Tom went down in the first game for the season, that was the one year when they did not win the division (in Bill's defense they did go 11-5 with Matt Cassell, but finished in 2nd place). Plus there is another thing to consider. The cheating. We know he's been caught a few times, but to me, I think he was a serious cheater. I believe this because he got caught taping Bengals practices...........the Bengals were the worst team in football at the time. If he's cheating against the worst team, wouldn't it stand to reason he's cheating against the good ones? Plus there has been an issue with communications devices (QB headsets) failing to work at Foxboro. If the visitors devices go down, they have to cut off the home team's as well. But don't you think that the Patriots would have some sort of plan for that, a contingency because they KNOW this will happen in certain close games. Teams have talked about their headsets malfunctioning at that stadium and it always seems to happen in close games, too. You could say Bill & Brady needed each other, but Brady kind of showed that wasn't really true as he won a Super Bowl with a second-level head coach and offensive coordinator that might have been overrated due to Brady. Plus you look at the Bill Belichick coaching tree. Not very successful, in fact, wrought with failure, as we know all-too-well ! Bill is being watched now, he can't get away with the crap he used to and wouldn't you know, the Patriots haven't been very successful. Was Bill's genius his coaching or his scheming? (and I don't mean game-plan scheming). I am shocked he hasn't walked away yet. He's like an SNL skit, running on long after the joke was over. He's looking like Miggy last few years. The AFC East is licking their chops right now, ready to bury them in last place. It would take an epic failure by one of those teams to not have that happen. I think he's a good coach, but I think he's a bit of a fraud too. I think Chuck Noll was probably the best coach of all time. Tom Landry's up there too. Vince Lombardi's name is on the trophy, but his brief stint in Washington wasn't very successful. Noll took over the Steelers at a time when the Steelers were a very Lionesque joke and turned them around in 3 years and put them on a permanent path of relevance, long after his departure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRamage Posted April 26, 2023 Share Posted April 26, 2023 I very much think Belichick is overrated. That's not to say he's trash, but yeah... without Brady he's been very bad. I think the lack of a good coaching tree could be attributed to just a poor teacher or perhaps someone who's not willing to share his secrets. Both of these things may or may not be considered failings in a HC depending on your perspective, but I'd say it is possible to be a good HC without having a good coaching tree. It certainly doesn't help, but isn't, by itself, proof that you're a bad HC. To me the real damning thing is his record with and without Brady. For the year prior to 2001 and after 2019, plus adding in 2008 the year Brady only played one game, Belichick's record is 77 and 85. Now, if you consider that these were years when Belichick's team did not have a franchise level QB, 77 and 85 really isn't bad... but it's also not good. If you want to make the case that Belichick is the best or one of the best (like, top 5 or even top 10) coaches all time, then this is a guy who should be able to make even "less than" players perform better sub-.500, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted April 26, 2023 Share Posted April 26, 2023 belichick is in the pantheon of greatest coaches of all time. top 5 for sure. who else is better? walsh? shula? noll? landry? lombardi? fontes? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted April 26, 2023 Share Posted April 26, 2023 Everybody says Belichick is nothing without Brady but Belichick is the one who took the chance on Brady and developed him. It's not like the Patriots lucked into the 1st overall pick and Brady was the generational talent coming out. Does Belichick get no credit for developing Brady? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted April 26, 2023 Share Posted April 26, 2023 16 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Everybody says Belichick is nothing without Brady but Belichick is the one who took the chance on Brady and developed him. It's not like the Patriots lucked into the 1st overall pick and Brady was the generational talent coming out. Does Belichick get no credit for developing Brady? This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted April 26, 2023 Share Posted April 26, 2023 Belichick went 11-5 with Matt Cassell, 6-0 with Jimmy G and won 10 games with a rookie Mac Jones. Would he have won as many championships as he did without Brady? Probably not but the dude can coach and has proven he can win games with other QBs at the helm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted April 26, 2023 Share Posted April 26, 2023 I do think he got a little too big for his britches by having Matt Patricia as DeFacto offensive coordinator. I understand if he wanted to bring Patricia in a defensive capacity but everyone knew that was a disaster waiting to happen. Also for the most part the Patriots have been pretty good defensively under Belichick who is a defensive coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted April 26, 2023 Share Posted April 26, 2023 Yes he is probably the best coach ever but no he is not the same guy now as he was 10, 15, 20 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRamage Posted April 26, 2023 Share Posted April 26, 2023 4 hours ago, Motown Bombers said: Everybody says Belichick is nothing without Brady but Belichick is the one who took the chance on Brady and developed him. It's not like the Patriots lucked into the 1st overall pick and Brady was the generational talent coming out. Does Belichick get no credit for developing Brady? Perhaps some credit, sure. But if we attribute much of Brady's success to his development by Belichick, then does it seem reasonable that Belichick should be able to develop other QBs? To be fair for nearly two decades he didn't need to, but for five years wit the Browns he didn't develop a franchise QB. And for three years since Brady has left there are no signs that the next franchise level QB is emerging in New England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted April 29, 2023 Share Posted April 29, 2023 Belichick is a lousy drafter and has been for a few years now. 2020: Kyle Dugger / Josh Uche / Anfernee Jennings / Devin Asiasi / Dalton Keene / Justin Wohrwasser / Michael Onwenu / Justin Herron / Caash Malula / Dustin Woodard 2021: Mac Jones / Christian Barmore / Ronnie Perkins / Rhamondre Stevenson / Cameron McGrone / Joshua Bledsoe / William Sherman / Tre Nixon 2022: Cole Strange / Tyquan Thornton / Marcus Jones / Jack Jones / Pierre Strong / Bailey Zappe / Kevin Harris / Sam Roberts / Chasen Hines / Andrew Steuber 2023: Christian Gonzalez / Keion White / Marte Mapu / Jake Andrews / Chad Ryland ... (TBD) That doesn't inspire confidence. Gonzalez seems like a good pick, but they aren't getting talent in the draft how they used to. Game seems to have passed Belichick by in an AFC that has no problem blowing right by him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted April 29, 2023 Share Posted April 29, 2023 Patriots draft a punter and kicker in the same draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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