2025 Detroit Tigers General Discussion Thread

[Edman85]

47 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Someone is always hurt. Multiple roster crunches are generally anticipated for each one that materializes. It reminds me of payroll budgeting. One you get to a couple of dozen FTEs in a org, you are never going to keep them all filled all the time, so with luck they don't figure that out up the chain, and you may get a bit to play with in the personnel budget.

I remember when the Tigers had too many starting pitchers last spring and it took until June for bullpen days to be regular.

[Sports_Freak]

24 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

I remember when the Tigers had too many starting pitchers last spring and it took until June for bullpen days to be regular.

And I was really mad when they seemed to give up by trading Flaherty. Harris not only rebuilt this franchise, he also changed the culture and expectations. We're actually a very, very good team with a manageable payroll. The envy of MLB.

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, Shinzaki said:

I'm a pessimist...I think Vierling is gonna need rotator cuff surgery.  On ESPN.com, Passan suggests we spin some assets to acquire Bo Bichette.  Not sure he'd be much of an upgrade over just putting Javy back there

I think we'll be fine without four months of Bo Bichette.

[1984Echoes]

3 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

...  I don't see Sweeney being the guy to go down...

 

2 hours ago, Shinzaki said:

I'm a pessimist... I think Vierling is gonna need rotator cuff surgery.  On ESPN.com, Passan suggests we spin some assets to acquire Bo Bichette.  Not sure he'd be much of an upgrade over just putting Javy back there

 

Some thoughts:

I don't trust locking Baez into one spot... at SS. I don't trust that he won't fall back into old habits, or that pitchers make some adjustment and he starts to get embarrassed again. I like him... I do! Just with... some... reservations.

I actually like that Hinch can put him into any spot that he feels helps the team win games... and it seems that Baez has really bought into that as well. And it seems to have inspired him. I want to keep that. He can play 2B, SS, 3B, CF, probably LF too. Maybe even RF? And he can play every single day... or 98% of the time... because Hinch is going to put him ANYWHERE that he needs him and will allow to Baez to succeed. Not to be a broken record... but I like that... And I want to keep that.

On that basis... I could go with a Bichette trade. I was interested in that last year. This year... I think we're better prepared for this type of trade. WAG a trade: Sweeney, Jung, (can we add one of Malloy or Baddoo in here, just to give them a shot? Just trying to be nice... Or maybe even Bigbie... just to give him a chance...), Troy Melton, and Max Anderson.

For Toronto's: Bo Bichette, Addison Barger (adding Barger opens up Baez to mostly manning SS next year, btw...), Mason Fluharty, and Jeff Hoffman OR Brendon Little.

 

[gehringer_2]

3 hours ago, Shinzaki said:

I'm a pessimist...I think Vierling is gonna need rotator cuff surgery.  On ESPN.com, Passan suggests we spin some assets to acquire Bo Bichette.  Not sure he'd be much of an upgrade over just putting Javy back there

the set-back was for sure a bad sigh. OTOH, the imagining is good enough today you'd think they should have had a decent idea of whether surgery was indicated.

[papalawrence]

Bichette would be a half season rental. Toronto is playing well. The price for Bichette would likely be too steep

[1984Echoes]

53 minutes ago, papalawrence said:

Bichette would be a half season rental. Toronto is playing well. The price for Bichette would likely be too steep

I think they are specifically looking for potential Major League talent that is "on the cusp" or "almost there"... I mean.. they just signed Guerrero for $500 mill... I don't believe they are looking for a tear-down...

Sweeney, Jung, Melton and Baddoo all qualify, IMO.

And Bigbie and Anderson are not far behind.

They are not getting Basallo and Mayo for a couple months of Bichette. I think your assessment is incorrect.

My "package" may also be incorrect... but I think I'm in the ballpark.

[holygoat]

1 hour ago, papalawrence said:

Bichette would be a half season rental. Toronto is playing well. The price for Bichette would likely be too steep

If the price is too steep, you hang up the phone, but Bichette being a rental lowers the realistic cost. I'm absolutely down with making the call to inquire. I like Sweeney, but Bichette is a massive upgrade for a team with championship aspirations. 

[Edman85]

1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said:

I think they are specifically looking for potential Major League talent that is "on the cusp" or "almost there"... I mean.. they just signed Guerrero for $500 mill... I don't believe they are looking for a tear-down...

Sweeney, Jung, Melton and Baddoo all qualify, IMO.

And Bigbie and Anderson are not far behind.

They are not getting Basallo and Mayo for a couple months of Bichette. I think your assessment is incorrect.

My "package" may also be incorrect... but I think I'm in the ballpark.

I am the biggest Baddoo stan in the world, but his trade value right now is zero if not negative.

[1984Echoes]

48 minutes ago, holygoat said:

If the price is too steep, you hang up the phone, but Bichette being a rental lowers the realistic cost. I'm absolutely down with making the call to inquire. I like Sweeney, but Bichette is a massive upgrade for a team with championship aspirations. 

The "key-est" point.

 

18 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

I am the biggest Baddoo stan in the world, but his trade value right now is zero if not negative.

I agree.

So Baddoo/ Malloy/ Bigbie would not be a "part of the deal" as much as a "throw-in guy."

If Toronto says "give us a throw-in just for..." (no matter the reason)... I certainly wouldn't say no. Maybe they would have a different viewpoint of a throw-in... like another pitcher. Or one low-A guy with some upside, like Strong/ Franyerber/ Santana/ or...?

I don't know... I'm just waggin'...

[Edman85]

13 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

The "key-est" point.

 

I agree.

So Baddoo/ Malloy/ Bigbie would not be a "part of the deal" as much as a "throw-in guy."

If Toronto says "give us a throw-in just for..." (no matter the reason)... I certainly wouldn't say no. Maybe they would have a different viewpoint of a throw-in... like another pitcher. Or one low-A guy with some upside, like Strong/ Franyerber/ Santana/ or...?

I don't know... I'm just waggin'...

Why throw them in if they have no or negative value?

[papalawrence]

Toronto is 1.5 back of the WC. They threw out huge bids for several top free agents. I don't see them giving Bichette away cheap. Maybe if Sweeney, Jung and Anderson are included. Baddoo has no trade value. Bichette has received mvp votes 3 seasons. He has regressed, but is still only 27. I hope you guys are right. I highly doubt Toronto will sell from their current producers for prospects, unless the package is very strong.

BTW Sweeney's ops+ is 74 and his war is negative. I don't think he has much trade value either.

 

Edited Wednesday at 03:28 AM by papalawrence

[gehringer_2]

31 minutes ago, papalawrence said:

BTW Sweeney's ops+ is 74 and his war is negative. I don't think he has much trade value either.

No, but I want to see more of Sweeney before giving up there. His 2025 Rdrs isn't good, but his overal Rdrs over the 92 games he has played as a pro in only -2 and he hasn't played the position in the majors for even a full season yet. It would be nice to see a stronger arm, probably not much hope that will change. On the offensive side, his May was better than his April, he does stand in well against LHP and his K rate is reasonable. The down side is his walk rate is poor.

But since, as accurately pointed out, he wouldn't bring much in trade, and there still a reasonable hope about his upside, I think we keep playing him for the time being and see how he trends. And with Meadows and Perez back in the OF, McKinstry and Baez are going to start taking some of his AB at SS just in the normal course anyway.

[chasfh]

11 hours ago, holygoat said:

If the price is too steep, you hang up the phone, but Bichette being a rental lowers the realistic cost. I'm absolutely down with making the call to inquire. I like Sweeney, but Bichette is a massive upgrade for a team with championship aspirations. 

Do you give up one of Liranzo or Briceño for four months of him?

[chasfh]

8 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

No, but I want to see more of Sweeney before giving up there. His 2025 Rdrs isn't good, but his overal Rdrs over the 92 games he has played as a pro in only -2 and he hasn't played the position in the majors for even a full season yet. It would be nice to see a stronger arm, probably not much hope that will change. On the offensive side, his May was better than his April, he does stand in well against LHP and his K rate is reasonable. The down side is his walk rate is poor.

But since, as accurately pointed out, he wouldn't bring much in trade, and there still a reasonable hope about his upside, I think we keep playing him for the time being and see how he trends. And with Meadows and Perez back in the OF, McKinstry and Baez are going to start taking some of his AB at SS just in the normal course anyway.

I don’t believe defense is like hitting, where it’s typical to come in and struggle mightily before getting your sea legs and then performing at your optimum level. Defensive skills are far less fine than hitting, and I would expect someone who’s good at defense in the minors to be already at something like 90% or 95% of their optimum level from their very first inning in the majors, with only super fine tuning needed; as opposed to a good minor league hitter coming up at something like 50% of their optimum major league level, where some significant changes would need to be made to get them fully up to max. Am I making sense? 

[holygoat]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

Do you give up one of Liranzo or Briceño for four months of him?

Of course not.

[chasfh]

Just now, holygoat said:

Of course not.

Neither would I. And I couldn't see the Jays taking anything less than that for an two-time All-Star shortstop in his prime. Certainly not sell-low players like Sweeney or Jung.

[Tiger337]

Are Sweeney and Jung "sell low guys" or is that just somrething that fans talk about? 

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

I don’t believe defense is like hitting, where it’s typical to come in and struggle mightily before getting your sea legs and then performing at your optimum level. Defensive skills are far less fine than hitting, and I would expect someone who’s good at defense in the minors to be already at something like 90% or 95% of their optimum level from their very first inning in the majors, with only super fine tuning needed; as opposed to a good minor league hitter coming up at something like 50% of their optimum major league level, where some significant changes would need to be made to get them fully up to max. Am I making sense? 

Sure - I agree wrt the basic ability to catch, throw and cover ground, but you will still gain useful knowledge from being to see the hitters you are playing against a few times, and as the team and the player learn each other strengths and weaknesses - accuracy of positioning choices will improve, etc, so there are still improvements available in net outcomes. But the other thing I meant to point out is that people are looking at poor short term Rdrs and ignoring that he was plus over a short term last season. Taking the total over 100 games -2 ain't great, but it's still better than you are going to get from McKinstry and maybe even Javy since Javy's unreliable arm can keep his great glove from racking up a lot in the way of positive net fielding ratings -- and 100 games it still barely enough for Rdrs to level out anyway. Not that I think he is going to ever win a GG or anything, just that I think he may field well enough that if the bat comes around a little more he'd be a serviceable starting SS and it may take 500+ PA to get a better take on that. Obvious if we might know sooner if he keeps slumping, but if he can hang around a 650 OPS I'm still interested. 

I do have reservations about his arm though. He's hit 85mph, would like to see 90 from my starting SS.

Edited Wednesday at 03:09 PM by gehringer_2

[papalawrence]

23 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Are Sweeney and Jung "sell low guys" or is that just somrething that fans talk about? 

I like Sweeney. He plays with heart - that catch toward the end of an Orioles game last season was a pivotal moment for the team. He is coachable, humble and a positive clubhouse guy. I am beginning to have doubts he is a full-time starting SS at this level.

Jung needs more AB's to find out what's there.

Right now I don't think either is regarded around the league as a highly regarded prospect

[Tiger337]

6 minutes ago, papalawrence said:

I like Sweeney. He plays with heart - that catch toward the end of an Orioles game last season was a pivotal moment for the team. He is coachable, humble and a positive clubhouse guy. I am beginning to have doubts he is a full-time starting SS at this level.

Jung needs more AB's to find out what's there.

Right now I don't think either is regarded around the league as a highly regarded prospect

But Jung was a "top 100" prospect before the season started and these prospect lists are opinions which might not be shared by insiders.  

[4hzglory]

43 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Neither would I. And I couldn't see the Jays taking anything less than that for an two-time All-Star shortstop in his prime. Certainly not sell-low players like Sweeney or Jung.

I mean J.D. Martinez didn't bring back much   .  I don't think Sweeney moves the needle for the Jays, nor would I want to include him as Bichette is only a rental and we need options for next year.  And Sweeney has shown enough in spurts IMO to have potential to be the bridge to McGonigle/Rainer.  I'd much rather go into 2026 with Sweeney and Baez over counting on Baez.

I also. don't think Bichette as a rental costs a fortune, but it may be Jung, Lee, and someone like Hamm.  

[4hzglory]

19 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

But Jung was a "top 100" prospect before the season started and these prospect lists are opinions which might not be shared by insiders.  

And all Jung has done has hit since going back to Toledo.  He just hasn't found his power in his limited AB's in the majors.  I think he does have value - obviously not Clark, McGonigle, Rainer, Briceno, Lizarno value, but he comes in next IMO and is the only one I'd trade of that bunch for a rental.  

[gehringer_2]

31 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

But Jung was a "top 100" prospect before the season started and these prospect lists are opinions which might not be shared by insiders.  

The fact that he didn't hold his roster spot with the Tigers when the season started doesn't help his trade value either.

Edited Wednesday at 03:51 PM by gehringer_2

[Tiger337]

8 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

The fact that he didn't hold his roster spot with the Tigers when the season started doesn't help his trade value either.

So, he's a guy who can hit in the minors, is not much of a defender and hasn't proved himself in the majors.  That sounds a lot like Liranzo and Briceno.