Tenacious D Posted 5 hours ago Posted 5 hours ago 1 hour ago, chasfh said: My recent thought has been that signing Skubal to a long-term deal would go a long way toward signaling to the market that we are serious about contending, which would make us a more attractive destination. If we let Skubal walk next year, that may not hurt our position with free agents all that much, depending in large part how this season goes and what our roster looks like next winter. If we trade Skubal for minor leaguers this winter, however, I believe that would be an unmitigated disaster in terms of our ability to attract top talent to the team, because that would likely be seen as an active move toward pulling back on competing this season after making the playoffs the past two seasons. IOW, it would look like we're going into another rebuild. Fair or not, I do believe that would be the perception. Who said he has to be dealt for minor leaguers? Quote
1984Echoes Posted 5 hours ago Posted 5 hours ago 4 hours ago, Dan Gilmore said: That’s your spin. I don’t buy it at all. PS: In Black and White: (I picked a starting point just to pick a starting point... (Starting with OUR offseason around Oct 22nd or so...) and there is NO way I can continue piling up the FATALISTIC versus OPTIMISTIC viewpoints in this thread...). It's endless. This isn't spin. It's pure fatalism versus optimism. And it's all over this thread in pure black and white ("We WON'T CONTEND UNTIL 2030 if we trade Skubal!!") Omigosh... there is just so much OVER the TOP fatalism I had to stop. Here is just a small sampling (my comments are in italics and brackets...): Fatalism: On 10/22/2025 at 8:49 AM, chasfh said: I think you’re right that trading Skubal … could have an impact on their psyche and thus performance afterward that … (Because trading Skubal means the rest of the team will just give up.) Optimism: On 10/22/2025 at 10:25 PM, Tiger337 said: In 2024, the Tigers gave their team the message that they were giving up on the season and then they couldn't stop winning! So, maybe they needed that message… Fatalism: On 10/23/2025 at 8:45 AM, chasfh said: Then maybe we should trade all our good players and pitchers for bags of balls and give up on 2026 so we can finally win our ring! … Fatalism: On 10/31/2025 at 8:46 AM, chasfh said: We should probably remember if the Tigers were to trade Skubal, they could kiss Bichette or Bregman or Tucker or Cease or just about any other halfway decent free agent goodbye. There’s no way any good player is going to want to come to a team … DOUBLE Fatalism!!!: On 10/31/2025 at 8:46 AM, chasfh said: And this doesn’t even take into account the effect such a trade …would have on the rest of the guys who are already here, as well as the guys who are due to come up. Who’s going to gladly bust their ass for a team that purposely trades their way out of playoff contention? (Because trading Skubal means the rest of the team will just GIVE UP!!! New kids coming up from the minors are NOT going to bust their ass to make MLB... they’re just going to give up! Hinch is just going to give up! EVERYBODY on the Tigers is just going to GIVE UP because we traded Skubal!!! OMIGOSH!!! The END of the WORLD!!!) Optimism: On 11/4/2025 at 6:20 AM, oblong said: ... If you think you have a good system in place you should be able to replace him. You don't need back to back Cy Young pitchers to replace him but a couple of players who might finish top ten. Fatalism: On 11/4/2025 at 8:27 AM, chasfh said: If we trade Skubal, our trajectory will go backward... Optimism: On 11/4/2025 at 1:25 PM, TcFlint said: Wrong! With Jobe, McGonigle, Anderson, Clark, Olson, Melton, Bicerno, Hamm, Green, Torkelson, Dingler, free agent signings, and whatever prospects we get for Skubal (if he is traded) we will NOT go backwards!!! One more year only for Skubal and a prospect in 2030 is malpractice IMO and is more than likely what we are going to get. Optimism: On 11/4/2025 at 10:51 AM, AlaskanTigersFan said: … I also think next year would be an adjustment anyways while waiting for McGonigle, Clark, Briceno and Liranzo to make their debuts and break in. Not to mention, hopefully Jobe should be back in August (fingers crossed). There's your true core to add to Greene, Dingler, Keith and Carpenter (hopefully Tork too but we'll see). … Tigers could make plenty of trades with Meadows, Max Anderson …, Lee, Wenceel Perez etc... to add to their pitching. There's a logjam there which could get us some decent pitchers. ... So yes, if I could trade Skubal and get all of those (multiple players in ATF’s trade proposals…) in the top 10-15 range... I'd do it. ... Fatalism: On 11/4/2025 at 11:51 AM, chasfh said: … position his team to get back to that same place no sooner than three years from now, which is 2028, at best, and probably more like 2029 or even 2030 (!!!). (HOLY FATALISM BATMAN !!!) For one thing, the fans would go absolutely ape**** (!!!) after … But what is arguably even worse is that Harris would lose the players in the organization … Riley Greene or Spencer Torkelson, Dillon Dingler, or a Jackson Jobe, or Kevin McGonigle or Max Clark or a dozen other ranked young talents (IT’S the END OF THE WORLD!!! JUST GIVE UP!!!) … but also, the free agents outside of this organization. What halfway decent free agent in his right mind is going to sign with a team operating with the expressed intent of going backward the year they come aboard? Who on god's green earth would want to sign up for that? And not only free agents this year, but free agents every single year Scott Harris is running this team. No top-tier free agent would ever want to devote … at any given moment, they are willing to blow it all up and go backwards because it might pay out four or five years now. Trading Tarik Skubal this winter is practically guaranteed to limit our prospective free agent pool to guys who are willing to sign one-year prove-it deals, and nothing more, for the rest of Harris's tenure with us. … (HOLY HYPERBOLE BATMAN!!!) (Like I said… END OF THE WORLD FATALISM!) After the Tigers win 3 straight World Series (Following the above theory: “But SCOTT HARRIS is running that team! I will NEVER sign with a team run by Scott Harris because…” Because Why?) In black and white. Fatalism: On 11/4/2025 at 1:08 PM, 4hzglory said: … Trading Skubal would all but guarantee the Tigers would be only getting FA's who need to rebuild their value, and that once homegrown players reach FA, if they are any good, they are likely gone. … (Because trading Skubal means ALL our pending FA’s will be traded. … NOT. There is NO PROOF that ALL future pending FA’s will just be traded. Where is this fatalism coming from? Especially since Harris has yet to have HIS team on the field, these are still mostly Avila’s players. I trust Harris to make GOOD judgements on which Avila players he wants to keep long term (I start with Dingler and Keith, plus…?), and which of his own players are good enough to sign to long-term extensions. Skubal is just too old to sign to a 10 year $400 mill contract, and is two years too early for a true Harris team. Plus pitchers like to blow out their arms and, again, he’ll be 30 years old at the START of any new contract in 2027… IMO. Again, IMO, I think trading Skubal means ZILCH for future extension/trade decisions. But maybe I’m being too Optimistic and should be more Fatalistic?) Quote
1984Echoes Posted 5 hours ago Posted 5 hours ago 1 hour ago, chasfh said: ... If we trade Skubal for minor leaguers this winter, however, I believe that would be an unmitigated disaster in terms of our ability to attract top talent to the team, because ... it would look like we're going into another rebuild. Fair or not ... And here it is again. UNMITIGATED DISASTER!!! Holy FATALISM Batman!!! Quote
gehringer_2 Posted 5 hours ago Posted 5 hours ago 1 hour ago, chasfh said: My recent thought has been that signing Skubal to a long-term deal would go a long way toward signaling to the market that we are serious about contending, which would make us a more attractive destination. Signals are nice, but of course signing him to huge deal would also go a long way towards depleting the resources to sign those additional free agents! Quote
1984Echoes Posted 5 hours ago Posted 5 hours ago Just now, gehringer_2 said: Signals are nice, but of course signing him to huge deal would also go a long way towards depleting the resources to sign those additional free agents! I wouldn't worry about depleting resources. With a lot of kids coming up our payroll should be able to handle a few vets, even if they are costly. But Skubal isn't signing a free agent contract this offseason with us. So this isn't even relevant until offseason 2026. Any FA's that sign with Detroit aren't signing because Skubal is here ONLY in 2026, or HAS an extension or DOESN'T have an extension. There are only two reasons a FA will sign with Detroit this offseason, and neither have anything to do with Skubal: 1) Money 2) They WANT to be here. Quote
casimir Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago 47 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: PS: In Black and White: (I picked a starting point just to pick a starting point... (Starting with OUR offseason around Oct 22nd or so...) and there is NO way I can continue piling up the FATALISTIC versus OPTIMISTIC viewpoints in this thread...). It's endless. This isn't spin. It's pure fatalism versus optimism. And it's all over this thread in pure black and white ("We WON'T CONTEND UNTIL 2030 if we trade Skubal!!") Omigosh... there is just so much OVER the TOP fatalism I had to stop. Here is just a small sampling (my comments are in italics and brackets...): Fatalism: On 10/22/2025 at 8:49 AM, chasfh said: I think you’re right that trading Skubal … could have an impact on their psyche and thus performance afterward that … (Because trading Skubal means the rest of the team will just give up.) Optimism: On 10/22/2025 at 10:25 PM, Tiger337 said: In 2024, the Tigers gave their team the message that they were giving up on the season and then they couldn't stop winning! So, maybe they needed that message… Fatalism: On 10/23/2025 at 8:45 AM, chasfh said: Then maybe we should trade all our good players and pitchers for bags of balls and give up on 2026 so we can finally win our ring! … Fatalism: On 10/31/2025 at 8:46 AM, chasfh said: We should probably remember if the Tigers were to trade Skubal, they could kiss Bichette or Bregman or Tucker or Cease or just about any other halfway decent free agent goodbye. There’s no way any good player is going to want to come to a team … DOUBLE Fatalism!!!: On 10/31/2025 at 8:46 AM, chasfh said: And this doesn’t even take into account the effect such a trade …would have on the rest of the guys who are already here, as well as the guys who are due to come up. Who’s going to gladly bust their ass for a team that purposely trades their way out of playoff contention? (Because trading Skubal means the rest of the team will just GIVE UP!!! New kids coming up from the minors are NOT going to bust their ass to make MLB... they’re just going to give up! Hinch is just going to give up! EVERYBODY on the Tigers is just going to GIVE UP because we traded Skubal!!! OMIGOSH!!! The END of the WORLD!!!) Optimism: On 11/4/2025 at 6:20 AM, oblong said: ... If you think you have a good system in place you should be able to replace him. You don't need back to back Cy Young pitchers to replace him but a couple of players who might finish top ten. Fatalism: On 11/4/2025 at 8:27 AM, chasfh said: If we trade Skubal, our trajectory will go backward... Optimism: On 11/4/2025 at 1:25 PM, TcFlint said: Wrong! With Jobe, McGonigle, Anderson, Clark, Olson, Melton, Bicerno, Hamm, Green, Torkelson, Dingler, free agent signings, and whatever prospects we get for Skubal (if he is traded) we will NOT go backwards!!! One more year only for Skubal and a prospect in 2030 is malpractice IMO and is more than likely what we are going to get. Optimism: On 11/4/2025 at 10:51 AM, AlaskanTigersFan said: … I also think next year would be an adjustment anyways while waiting for McGonigle, Clark, Briceno and Liranzo to make their debuts and break in. Not to mention, hopefully Jobe should be back in August (fingers crossed). There's your true core to add to Greene, Dingler, Keith and Carpenter (hopefully Tork too but we'll see). … Tigers could make plenty of trades with Meadows, Max Anderson …, Lee, Wenceel Perez etc... to add to their pitching. There's a logjam there which could get us some decent pitchers. ... So yes, if I could trade Skubal and get all of those (multiple players in ATF’s trade proposals…) in the top 10-15 range... I'd do it. ... Fatalism: On 11/4/2025 at 11:51 AM, chasfh said: … position his team to get back to that same place no sooner than three years from now, which is 2028, at best, and probably more like 2029 or even 2030 (!!!). (HOLY FATALISM BATMAN !!!) For one thing, the fans would go absolutely ape**** (!!!) after … But what is arguably even worse is that Harris would lose the players in the organization … Riley Greene or Spencer Torkelson, Dillon Dingler, or a Jackson Jobe, or Kevin McGonigle or Max Clark or a dozen other ranked young talents (IT’S the END OF THE WORLD!!! JUST GIVE UP!!!) … but also, the free agents outside of this organization. What halfway decent free agent in his right mind is going to sign with a team operating with the expressed intent of going backward the year they come aboard? Who on god's green earth would want to sign up for that? And not only free agents this year, but free agents every single year Scott Harris is running this team. No top-tier free agent would ever want to devote … at any given moment, they are willing to blow it all up and go backwards because it might pay out four or five years now. Trading Tarik Skubal this winter is practically guaranteed to limit our prospective free agent pool to guys who are willing to sign one-year prove-it deals, and nothing more, for the rest of Harris's tenure with us. … (HOLY HYPERBOLE BATMAN!!!) (Like I said… END OF THE WORLD FATALISM!) After the Tigers win 3 straight World Series (Following the above theory: “But SCOTT HARRIS is running that team! I will NEVER sign with a team run by Scott Harris because…” Because Why?) In black and white. Fatalism: On 11/4/2025 at 1:08 PM, 4hzglory said: … Trading Skubal would all but guarantee the Tigers would be only getting FA's who need to rebuild their value, and that once homegrown players reach FA, if they are any good, they are likely gone. … (Because trading Skubal means ALL our pending FA’s will be traded. … NOT. There is NO PROOF that ALL future pending FA’s will just be traded. Where is this fatalism coming from? Especially since Harris has yet to have HIS team on the field, these are still mostly Avila’s players. I trust Harris to make GOOD judgements on which Avila players he wants to keep long term (I start with Dingler and Keith, plus…?), and which of his own players are good enough to sign to long-term extensions. Skubal is just too old to sign to a 10 year $400 mill contract, and is two years too early for a true Harris team. Plus pitchers like to blow out their arms and, again, he’ll be 30 years old at the START of any new contract in 2027… IMO. Again, IMO, I think trading Skubal means ZILCH for future extension/trade decisions. But maybe I’m being too Optimistic and should be more Fatalistic?) Someone needs a hobby. 1 Quote
casimir Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago 3 hours ago, Tenacious D said: The other thing is that we really don’t know what a return could be for Skubal. All speculation has come from podcasts and industry insiders. They might be much more bullish than what teams will be willing to surrender. We don’t know for sure. I realize there’s only one more guaranteed season of Skubal on this deal. Any team acquiring him risks losing him to free agency, and who knows if a qualifying offer will be a thing after a new CBA is put into place. So that kind of puts a damper on a return. The Tigers are playoff contenders and have one of the very best pitchers in the sport. Losing him creates a hole in those playoff hopes. Of course, they could fill that slot and raise the rest of the roster skill set to offset that. But to lose a SP of that magnitude really puts a strain on a club. So that kind of puts a premium on a return. Maybe I’m wrong, but I just don’t see a team offering enough to make the Tigers willing to trade Skubal. They’ll take calls, do their due diligence, yada, yada. I just think in the end the Tigers keep him for the 2026 season. And if some team does find a way to pry him away, the cost will be vast. Quote
1984Echoes Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago 32 minutes ago, casimir said: Someone needs a hobby. I have many. But this was so hilarious putting together... I just couldn't pass it up! PS: Ask me about my baseball card collection (I know, what a kid am I ... !) 1 Quote
Sports_Freak Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago 17 minutes ago, casimir said: We don’t know for sure. I realize there’s only one more guaranteed season of Skubal on this deal. Any team acquiring him risks losing him to free agency, and who knows if a qualifying offer will be a thing after a new CBA is put into place. So that kind of puts a damper on a return. The Tigers are playoff contenders and have one of the very best pitchers in the sport. Losing him creates a hole in those playoff hopes. Of course, they could fill that slot and raise the rest of the roster skill set to offset that. But to lose a SP of that magnitude really puts a strain on a club. So that kind of puts a premium on a return. Maybe I’m wrong, but I just don’t see a team offering enough to make the Tigers willing to trade Skubal. They’ll take calls, do their due diligence, yada, yada. I just think in the end the Tigers keep him for the 2026 season. And if some team does find a way to pry him away, the cost will be vast. The Tigers are a .500 club the last 2 seasons without Skubal. But there is one advantage fans overlook to a team trading for him. Sure, he's only under team control for one season but it also gives the team trading for him the whole year to negotiate with him on an extension. But without a guarantee of him signing an extension, his value is for a season of a 2 time Cy Young Award pitcher. Whatever that's worth. 🙅♂️ Quote
Sports_Freak Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago 1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said: I wouldn't worry about depleting resources. With a lot of kids coming up our payroll should be able to handle a few vets, even if they are costly. But Skubal isn't signing a free agent contract this offseason with us. So this isn't even relevant until offseason 2026. Any FA's that sign with Detroit aren't signing because Skubal is here ONLY in 2026, or HAS an extension or DOESN'T have an extension. There are only two reasons a FA will sign with Detroit this offseason, and neither have anything to do with Skubal: 1) Money 2) They WANT to be here. Depleting resources? Yes, depending on what type of business model the Tigers are planning. If their plan is to limit payroll at $120 million, extending Skubal would be about 1/3 of the entire payroll. We just don't know....what Harris or Chris says may not be true. Stay tuned, we'll see.. Quote
1984Echoes Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago Just now, Sports_Freak said: Depleting resources? Yes, depending on what type of business model the Tigers are planning. If their plan is to limit payroll at $120 million, extending Skubal would be about 1/3 of the entire payroll. We just don't know....what Harris or Chris says may not be true. Stay tuned, we'll see.. The flipside to that is... very shortly... we WON'T be paying: Baez $24 mill per year. Torres $22 mill per year. Flaherty $20 mill per year. Doesn't that free up payroll to pay for OTHER talent? You could add in McKinstry's $4 mill because at some point, he will be replaced by Hao Yu Lee or Trei Cruz or... And when Max Anderson and McGonigle and Clark come up... Don't we want at least ONE or TWO well-regarded veterans mixed in with those guys? Again... I'm not worried about payroll the next several years, at all. And I don't think Harris, or Chris Ilitch, is either. Just my 2 cents. Quote
papalawrence Posted 2 hours ago Posted 2 hours ago 1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said: The flipside to that is... very shortly... we WON'T be paying: Baez $24 mill per year. Torres $22 mill per year. Flaherty $20 mill per year. Yes, incredible cap flexibility. 1/24 committed Javy and 3/15 committed to Keith, with more years with club options - that's all that is committed in salary post 2026. Maybe Harris set that up due to uncertainty with the cba. Or maybe (likely) that's his ongoing preference. Therebis room for some risk. I prefer that risk be placed on Skubal. Not Alex Cobb. Quote
1984Echoes Posted 2 hours ago Posted 2 hours ago 2 minutes ago, papalawrence said: Yes, incredible cap flexibility. 1/24 committed Javy and 3/15 committed to Keith, with more years with club options - that's all that is committed in salary post 2026. Maybe Harris set that up due to uncertainty with the cba. Or maybe (likely) that's his ongoing preference. There is room for some risk. I prefer that risk be placed on Skubal. Not Alex Cobb. I agree. But Scott Boras is standing in our way. Quote
RatkoVarda Posted 2 hours ago Posted 2 hours ago good Rosenthal article about The Skubal Decision in the Athletic. Basically, if you keep Skubal, get better now. If the Detroit Tigers want to keep Tarik Skubal, president of baseball operations Scott Harris can’t stay in his preferred risk-averse mode...No one is suggesting he do anything reckless and make a free-agent splurge that could set back the franchise years if it goes awry. But if the Tigers keep Skubal – and they should, seeing as how rare opportunities are to win a World Series – it’s time for Harris to get uncomfortable. Quote
Tiger337 Posted 1 hour ago Posted 1 hour ago I'm not feeling fatalistic, but not optimistic either. I am expecting them to keep Skubal, but not add a lot to support him. Quote
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