Will Tigers Pony up for Skubal

[1984Echoes]

10 hours ago, chasfh said:

... I’m not giving him credit for the actual winning, though. That’s a completely different deal. Avila has been gone for 3-1/2 years now, and ..

Hinch gets a WHOLE lot more of that credit (the winning) than anybody else. More than Harris. More than Avila.

Oh wait!!!

Who hired Hinch?

[Sports_Freak]

14 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

So everybody would have drafted Dingler where the Tigers took him in the 2nd round?

BS.

IMO.

Everyone would have drafted Keith in the 5th round?

BS.

IMO.

Do you want me to keep going? There's more... (Skubal 9th, Carpenter 19th...)

Etc.

We can make more of a judgement on Harris once all the Avila players get too expensive and leave. Right now we have a few highly regarded prospects that Harris and his team drafted. I really hope they live up to their hype. Turn the Tigers into a team that wins consistently. 

[1984Echoes]

13 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

We can make more of a judgement on Harris once all the Avila players get too expensive and leave. Right now we have a few highly regarded prospects that Harris and his team drafted. I really hope they live up to their hype. Turn the Tigers into a team that wins consistently. 

There are going to be some Avila leftover players.

Harris just has to choose the correct ones, and let the others work their way out the Org. By trade, free agency, or otherwise.

Quite a few of Avila's players have some team control left too so it's not going to be a fast process.

But I could see Harris wanting to build around Dingler, Briceno, Liranzo, McGonigle, Rainer, Keith, Clark, Jobe, Melton...

Those guys are easier to see than the rest. Anderson if he's good just as a DH. He and the others above fit his "mold".

Whoever else has staying power will have to impress Harris to get it... showing that they deserve it.

A mix of sourced guys I've listed. That's just the way it's going to be. Which is perfectly fine. I expect Harris to find or keep the right players, and Hinch & Fetter to turn them into perennial playoff contenders.

It's Harris that I trust will make the right decisions. But wasn't it Harris that said "calculated risks"...?

I'd like to see some of those calculated risks. Or at least MORE calculated than what we've seen so far.

 

 

 

Edited yesterday at 01:39 AM by 1984Echoes

[Sports_Freak]

16 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

There are going to be some Avila leftover players.

Harris just has to choose the correct ones, and let the others work their way out the Org. By trade, free agency, or otherwise.

Quite a few of Avila's players have some team control left too so it's not going to be a fast process.

But I could see Harris wanting to build around Dingler, Briceno, Liranzo, McGonigle, Rainer, Keith, Clark, Jobe, Melton...

Those guys are easier to see than the rest. Anderson if he's good just as a DH. He and the others above fit his "mold".

Whoever else has staying power will have to impress Harris to get it... showing that they deserve it.

A mix of sourced guys I've listed. That's just the way it's going to be. Which is perfectly fine. I expect Harris to find or keep the right players, and Hinch & Fetter to turn them into perennial playoff contenders.

It's Harris that I trust will make the right decisions. But wasn't it Harris that said "calculated risks"...?

I'd like to see some of those calculated risks. Or at least MORE calculated than what we've seen so far.

 

 

 

So if Harris trades Avila guys, like Skubal, are the players coming here his guys or Avila guys? 😅😅

[1984Echoes]

No, those would be Harris guys.

If Harris trades Tork to the Marlins for Edward Cabrera (just for example), Cabrera is a Harris guy.

All new and/or incoming guys are Harris guys, no matter what he used to obtain them.

IMO.

[1984Echoes]

PS: I know you were being just a little bit smart aleck there...

Kudos! 😉

But I just wanted to answer it straight.

[Tenacious D]

Please stop. The Tigers made the playoffs because of both Avila and Harris.  Can we move on?

[casimir]

10 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

Please stop. The Tigers made the playoffs because of both Avila and Harris.  Can we move on?

You forgot Hinch.

[Tiger337]

18 minutes ago, casimir said:

You forgot Hinch.

and Skubal

[Sports_Freak]

44 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

and Skubal

No Dombrowski guys left?  /S

[casimir]

8 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

No Dombrowski guys left?  /S

He left Avila.

[1984Echoes]

16 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

Please stop. The Tigers made the playoffs because of ... Avila and Harris...

... and Hinch, Fetter and Skubal.

[Stormin]

I give Chris Ilitch most of the credit for hiring Hinch.  Avila was already on thin ice.  Ilitch told him to find a "Scotty Bowman" type candidate and Hinch was the obvious and only choice.  When AJ was hired he said: “I'd like to thank Chris Ilitch and Al Avila" and when  Harris was hired I suspect Harris was told AJ is you manager.

Back to the original question, yes I think the Tigers will pay Skubal.   The Tigers have $60 million in free agent contracts coming off the books after the 2026 season and $34 million coming off the books after the 2027 season.  Trading a future HOF player, in his prime,  who wants to stay in Detroit, for prospects and 30 something past prime players does not make sense.

[buddha]

19 minutes ago, Stormin said:

I give Chris Ilitch most of the credit for hiring Hinch.  Avila was already on thin ice.  Ilitch told him to find a "Scotty Bowman" type candidate and Hinch was the obvious and only choice.  When AJ was hired he said: “I'd like to thank Chris Ilitch and Al Avila" and when  Harris was hired I suspect Harris was told AJ is you manager.

Back to the original question, yes I think the Tigers will pay Skubal.   The Tigers have $60 million in free agent contracts coming off the books after the 2026 season and $34 million coming off the books after the 2027 season.  Trading a future HOF player, in his prime,  who wants to stay in Detroit, for prospects and 30 something past prime players does not make sense.

but....SHOULD they sign skubal?

do you sign a PITCHER to a monster contract before the new cba is signed?  how many more years does skubal have left at this level?  2?  3?

im sure this has been bandied about before in this huge thread, but i need a palate cleanser after reading people fellate al fricking avila for multiple pages.

[Shinzaki]

I would not sign him for 10 years...six is as far as I would want to go

[Dino]

43 minutes ago, buddha said:

how many more years does skubal have left at this level?  2?  3?

Does his changeup play off of 92-94 rather than high 90s? He will always have that changeup as he ages. 

[Tigermojo]

42 minutes ago, buddha said:

but....SHOULD they sign skubal?

do you sign a PITCHER to a monster contract before the new cba is signed?  how many more years does skubal have left at this level?  2?  3?

im sure this has been bandied about before in this huge thread, but i need a palate cleanser after reading people fellate al fricking avila for multiple pages.

I think earlier in the thread I said no I would not sign anyone to these contracts.  I would make an exception in Skubal's case. His change up is an insane pitch. His work ethic and competitiveness are excellent. I think he's up there with Verlander and Scherzer. I always hated they let them go and I don't want to lose Skubal.

[gehringer_2]

34 minutes ago, Dino said:

Does his changeup play off of 92-94 rather than high 90s? He will always have that changeup as he ages. 

velocity makes everything play better but some guys can get away without it better than others. Depends on how much life they can muster on a fastball at 95 as compared to 99. JV could throw his FB across a range of different speeds short of full out and it played well enough to set up his off-speed, but JV was JV. And even he has said he doesn't think he could pitch in today's game the way he did in 2006.

Edited 15 hours ago by gehringer_2

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

but....SHOULD they sign skubal?

do you sign a PITCHER to a monster contract before the new cba is signed?  how many more years does skubal have left at this level?  2?  3?

im sure this has been bandied about before in this huge thread, but i need a palate cleanser after reading people fellate al fricking avila for multiple pages.

Probably not, but it's hard to say no.  I probably won't get upset if they do.  

Edited 15 hours ago by Tiger337

[buddha]

i dont know enough about modern pitching to say.

if its 6 years?  absolutely do it.  

if its ten years?  probably not.

the new cba might have a lot to say about it.

[chasfh]

59 minutes ago, Shinzaki said:

I would not sign him for 10 years...six is as far as I would want to go

I'm pretty sure that won't get it done. The desired currency of free agency is years plus dollars, rather than just dollars. The only exception is in cases such as Bregman, who took the shorter deal with higher AAV specifically to go back on the market the following season.

That's why I'm positive Skubal would not take 6/275 from Detroit if someone else were to offer him, say, 9/350. We might be able to get him to accept 9/330 from Detroit over a strange team's 9/350, because moving is a pain, but that's probably as much of a discount as we could expect from him.

 

[chasfh]

30 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

velocity makes everything play better but some guys can get away without it better than others. Depends on how much life they can muster on a fastball at 95 as compared to 99. JV could throw his FB across a range of different speeds short of full out and it played well enough to set up his off-speed, but JV was JV. And even he has said he doesn't think he could pitch in today's game the way he did in 2006.

I think people underestimate the difference between baseball in any given year and baseball 20 years later. The players are invariably bigger, stronger, better-trained, and better-informed in any year+20 vs year.

[gehringer_2]

54 minutes ago, buddha said:

the new cba might have a lot to say about it.

I think that is Detroit's best hope to sign him - that the owners have a clear vision of changes coming that will make teams reluctant to bid against Det for Skubal. The problem is that by the same token, if that's true Ilitch may not want to bid against himself either. I could certainly see MLB trying to ban contracts longer than 5 yrs and maybe settling for 7,  since there is precedent for that in other sports. Who knows if/how long the players would go to the mat over that?

Edited 14 hours ago by gehringer_2

[Longgone]

2 hours ago, Stormin said:

I give Chris Ilitch most of the credit for hiring Hinch.  Avila was already on thin ice.  Ilitch told him to find a "Scotty Bowman" type candidate and Hinch was the obvious and only choice.  When AJ was hired he said: “I'd like to thank Chris Ilitch and Al Avila" and when  Harris was hired I suspect Harris was told AJ is you manager.

Back to the original question, yes I think the Tigers will pay Skubal.   The Tigers have $60 million in free agent contracts coming off the books after the 2026 season and $34 million coming off the books after the 2027 season.  Trading a future HOF player, in his prime,  who wants to stay in Detroit, for prospects and 30 something past prime players does not make sense.

Trading a 30 year old pitcher, who will require a long term, mega contract, for a haul of young talent, and then using that financial wherewithal to invest in other needs, diversifying your risk, makes sense.

[1984Echoes]

5 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

... that will make teams reluctant to bid against Det for Skubal. ...

There will be no agreement...

Whatsoever...

That makes teams reluctant to bid for free agents.

Skubal is a free agent next year.

There is no possible way that a new CBA comes out with... Sorry.