Will Tigers Pony up for Skubal

[casimir]

4 hours ago, chasfh said:

That’s fine. Three years is too long for some people to give him. Get him out of there, next man up. We’re gonna die soon so come on hop to it already. I get it.

I’m willing to give him more time to let the plan unspool.

You’re incredibly thin skinned in regards to any notion of negative criticism of Scott Harris.  He definitely doesn’t deserve to be run out of town.  But he also doesn’t walk on water.

[casimir]

2 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Not worried, but missing the playoffs is a real possibility.  

That’s how I feel.  We all understand things happen throughout a baseball season that create a reality that can be different from preseason perception.  So, while I think that they are the best team in the division right now., I realize they aren’t guaranteed of anything.

Rewind a year.  Did everyone see Houston missing the 2025 playoffs?  I doubt it.  But it happened.

[4hzglory]

2 minutes ago, casimir said:

That’s how I feel.  We all understand things happen throughout a baseball season that create a reality that can be different from preseason perception.  So, while I think that they are the best team in the division right now., I realize they aren’t guaranteed of anything.

Rewind a year.  Did everyone see Houston missing the 2025 playoffs?  I doubt it.  But it happened.

I don’t think many were surprised Houston did when they traded Tucker and let Bregman walk.

[chasfh]

4 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Yes

Sounds like "no" to me! 😉

[casimir]

1 hour ago, 4hzglory said:

I don’t think many were surprised Houston did when they traded Tucker and let Bregman walk.

They acquired Isaac Paredes to play 3B in the Tucker trade.  They also added 1B Christian Walker, which, that ain't worked out so well.

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I think most opinions here fall somewhere between "get him out of here" and being 100% satisfied with what he's doing.  I may be closer to the latter than you think, but I still would like to see him do more.  

I would find it interesting if he signs or trades for names, too. I mean, other than Kenley Jansen, right?

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, casimir said:

You’re incredibly thin skinned in regards to any notion of negative criticism of Scott Harris.  He definitely doesn’t deserve to be run out of town.  But he also doesn’t walk on water.

I'm not in love with him and he's neither a close friend nor family member, so I have no personal stake in Scott Harris.

The idea I'm pushing back on is the conclusion people have already appeared to have drawn that because Harris has not signed or traded for the biggest names in the game by now, that he's never going to do so for whatever reason. And we're not the only ones who say or imply this. Stavenhagen says this, too. Have you heard the annoyed tone he has whenever he mentions Scott Harris's name on his podcast? That strikes me as wholly unprofessional, but only because i am applying the standards of journalists to him. I also aw something along these lines from at least one of the writers at MLBTR as well. They have a professional interest at hand, though, so that may be part of their frustration with him.

Harris came in on Day One and laid out a long term vision to fix the franchise he was inheriting. He was never going to be done by now. The rot was so deep, it was always going to take more than three years. We are not at the end of the process. We are more like smack of the middle of it. We haven't even gotten the top prospects onto the team yet and people look like they are already giving up on the playoffs this year, and even more gobsmackingly, are clamoring for the trade of our generational talent for whatever we can get back in return.

Not everybody here. Other posters have been very careful to articulate they like him more than not, but to a person, they express also impatience at the lack of big headline moves as of this date. But it's January 1, for crying out loud. We have no idea what this team is going to look like in mid-February, let alone March 26. I can understand grousing on March 26 if we do nothing between now and then.

But he has also guided us to two playoff appearances in his first three years which, if anyone would have predicted this in August 2022, they'd have been laughed off the forum. I regard that as proof of concept and has earned him continued leeway to spool out the plan. That's what I'm going to do.

But I can also see why you think I look incredibly thin-skinned with my responses as well. I appreciate the feedback.

[Tenacious D]

11 minutes ago, chasfh said:

But he has also guided us to two playoff appearances in his first three years which, if anyone would have predicted this in August 2022, they'd have been laughed off the forum. I regard that as proof of concept and has earned him continued leeway to spool out the plan. That's what I'm going to do.

I like Harris and do think he’s got the team heading in the right direction, but can we all agree he woke up on third base and many thought he hit a triple?  He basically surrendered at the trade deadline in ‘24, and Hinch guided them to the playoffs with Avila players. Again, repeat after me, Avila wasn’t that bad and Harris hasn’t been that good.  Still optimistic about him, though, but he has to build a team that advances to the ALCS. 

[Tigermojo]

26 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I'm not in love with him and he's neither a close friend nor family member, so I have no personal stake in Scott Harris.

The idea I'm pushing back on is the conclusion people have already appeared to have drawn that because Harris has not signed or traded for the biggest names in the game by now, that he's never going to do so for whatever reason. And we're not the only ones who say or imply this. Stavenhagen says this, too. Have you heard the annoyed tone he has whenever he mentions Scott Harris's name on his podcast? That strikes me as wholly unprofessional, but only because i am applying the standards of journalists to him. I also aw something along these lines from at least one of the writers at MLBTR as well. They have a professional interest at hand, though, so that may be part of their frustration with him.

Harris came in on Day One and laid out a long term vision to fix the franchise he was inheriting. He was never going to be done by now. The rot was so deep, it was always going to take more than three years. We are not at the end of the process. We are more like smack of the middle of it. We haven't even gotten the top prospects onto the team yet and people look like they are already giving up on the playoffs this year, and even more gobsmackingly, are clamoring for the trade of our generational talent for whatever we can get back in return.

Not everybody here. Other posters have been very careful to articulate they like him more than not, but to a person, they express also impatience at the lack of big headline moves as of this date. But it's January 1, for crying out loud. We have no idea what this team is going to look like in mid-February, let alone March 26. I can understand grousing on March 26 if we do nothing between now and then.

But he has also guided us to two playoff appearances in his first three years which, if anyone would have predicted this in August 2022, they'd have been laughed off the forum. I regard that as proof of concept and has earned him continued leeway to spool out the plan. That's what I'm going to do.

But I can also see why you think I look incredibly thin-skinned with my responses as well. I appreciate the feedback.

There are some of us who look at those big names who changed teams and remain underwhelmed. I'm still trusting Harris to build the best 40 man roster and organization he can. 

[chasfh]

13 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

I like Harris and do think he’s got the team heading in the right direction, but can we all agree he woke up on third base and many thought he hit a triple? 

I don't agree at all, and nothing personal, but this might be the worst characterization of his tenure anybody here has made.

[casimir]

16 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

I like Harris and do think he’s got the team heading in the right direction, but can we all agree he woke up on third base and many thought he hit a triple?  He basically surrendered at the trade deadline in ‘24, and Hinch guided them to the playoffs with Avila players. Again, repeat after me, Avila wasn’t that bad and Harris hasn’t been that good.  Still optimistic about him, though, but he has to build a team that advances to the ALCS. 

I don’t agree that Harris woke up on third base.  I think there was a little more talent in the farm system than the Tigers might have been credited for.  I think Harris took a development system that was getting a little better, thanks to Ryan Garko and others, and injected a little more fuel into it.  It sounds like he and Chris Ilitch and others have worked on improvements to the development system and other infrastructure, such as facilities, scouting, training, and international players.

I’ll agree with you in a parallel way that it’s a little disingenuous to grant a majority of the credit for the 2024 playoff run to Harris.  I’m not saying he doesn’t deserve any.  Obviously he acquired some players for that run.  But you’re right, he punted on the season at the trade deadline, which was the correct decision.  It just somehow worked out differently than the situation at the trade deadline suggested it would.

There’s still some work to do for 2026 and for the long term.  But I think Harris has them headed in the right direction.  Get a few more arms and I think they’re sitting very well for 2026.

[Tiger337]

4 hours ago, chasfh said:

Sounds like "no" to me! 😉

Yeah, it probably would have gotten a "he won't sign here" from you.  

Edited 9 hours ago by Tiger337

[Tenacious D]

I’m in the suddenly shrinking pro-Harris camp, but anything short of a ALCS advance is on him. He inherited a manager and many players who played significant roles in our ALDS appearances—it’s now up to him to continue to develop and add to that team. 

[buddha]

14 hours ago, AlaskanTigersFan said:

Is anyone worried the Tigers miss the playoffs all together? Remember they had the 15th best offense in baseball last year and the drop off from 10 to 15 was ENORMOUS! The Tigers without Skubal would have been top 10, but with him were top four. 

If the Tigers miss the playoffs, an we get one draft pick instead of three to four bona fide top prospects/young players in MLB, how pissed will you be? 

I still think if Harris doesn't trade Skubal, he sets the franchise back a decade into mediocrity. We become Angels 2.0 after the Ohtani debacle. History will repeat it seems. 

the tigers are one injury to skubal away from bring a below .500 team.  

progress is not always linear.  ask the detroit lions.

[buddha]

2 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

I’m in the suddenly shrinking pro-Harris camp, but anything short of a ALCS advance is on him. He inherited a manager and many players who played significant roles in our ALDS appearances—it’s now up to him to continue to develop and add to that team. 

his performance in bringing in and developing young talent has been really good.  it's great to see the team's minor league system being lauded.

otoh, he got played by eduardo rodriguez.  he totally blew the offseason by failing to sign bregman.  and he single handedly knee capped the team with his trade deadline acquisitions.  and he's done nothing of substance this offseason.  it seems he's developed a reputation as a mark around the league.

i'm starting to edge out of the harris camp, but i'm still "harris curious."  let's see if mcgonigle, clark, and maybe briceno pan out into impact players.  

my overall mood is that they are wasting skubal's best years because they have a "philosophy" and refuse to deviate even a little bit even if the circumstances change.

but we'll see.  i generally agree with the philosophy, but a little bit of bending this time might have benefitted them.

[gehringer_2]

3 hours ago, buddha said:

but we'll see.  i generally agree with the philosophy, but a little bit of bending this time might have benefitted them.

the numbers floating around for Framber Valdez have been 5/$160. Tigers could certainly afford that but I haven't seen them listed as in the hunt even once.

[casimir]

51 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

the numbers floating around for Framber Valdez have been 5/$160. Tigers could certainly afford that but I haven't seen them listed as in the hunt even once.

Were the Tigers listed as in the hunt for Alex Cobb last offseason?  See, they're just stealthy in that regards.

[Sports_Freak]

12 hours ago, chasfh said:

I don't agree at all, and nothing personal, but this might be the worst characterization of his tenure anybody here has made.

I refuse to express my opinion on this subject with you because you already know it. I just really, really hope that the young talent that the Harris team is counting on actually comes thru and make an impact, in a good way. 

Most fans on this board want the Tigers to be successful. So we're all kinda in the same boat. But baseball is a business and making as much money as possible is the goal. Bottom line...would the Tigers make more or less money if they give Skubal $40 million per season? About 1/4 of the payroll, on one player?

[chasfh]

8 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

I’m in the suddenly shrinking pro-Harris camp, but anything short of a ALCS advance is on him. He inherited a manager and many players who played significant roles in our ALDS appearances—it’s now up to him to continue to develop and add to that team. 

This is a lot fairer as a characterization. Not sure I would say the way the ball bounces in October is entirely Harris’s responsibility, any more than we can say he was personally responsible for winning those wild card series. He’s really not either way. But setting us up to have a better chance to go deeper into the playoffs definitely is his task, and he will be judged on the results.

Harris’s biggest job now is figuring out whether what we have in house now is enough, or whether we need reinforcements from outside. Practically everyone seems convinced the answer can only be outside help, and we did get back of the bullpen help to help us there. Me, based on his track record so far, I’m willing to trust him going into the season if he believes we are already positioned to go back to the playoffs now, based on what the front office knows about their own players versus the field. If we have a healthy roster that severely underperforms and misses out even with Skubal in the fold, I will stand up and boo with the rest of the crowd.

Edited 3 minutes ago by chasfh