Shinzaki Posted June 15 Posted June 15 What do you think is a fir deal for the 46 minutes ago, buddha said: anaheim would laugh and hang up. What do you think is a fair deal for Larkin? Quote
1984Echoes Posted June 15 Author Posted June 15 (edited) 2 hours ago, Shinzaki said: The Hockey writers propose... Anaheim gets Larkin Detroit gets C Mason McTavish, LHD Stian Solberg and C Roger McQueen along with Anaheim's 2027 1st and the 2027 2nd they got from us in the Gibson deal... 1 hour ago, buddha said: anaheim would laugh and hang up. I'm thinking the same because I don't believe the Ducks will move McQueen for Larkin. But we've heard a lot of McTavish rumors before... So... I would propose: 1) Larkin for McTavish, no McQueen, I have no interest in any of their D, but I would want to also include getting back from them Nathan Gauther. Another center, but 22, and RH'ed. Grinder type so our new 4th line center and he may also be able to drive some offense. 2) Funnily enough: Their "vet" goalies were disappointing (Husso and Mrazek) and young Dostal's save % during the season was only .888 and in the playoffs .870. Crazy and they probably say no but I include Gibson in this trade. They can have better vet goalie leadership than what they attempted with Mrazek and Husso. We don't want back any of their goalies or their defenseman, so Gibson gets us Gauther. He has some upside. 3) And their 2027 1st and 2nd since they don't have a 2026 1st. Would SY do this if he believes he can get a high 1st rounder this year? Larkin and Gibson for McTavish, Gauther, 2027 1st and 2nd? Is that enough for SY? Should we be getting more draft capital back? 2027 & 2028 1sts instead of 2027 1st & 2nd? Do the Ducks say no? Do they modify the deal because they don't actually want Gibson back? Just some thoughts/ questions/ ideas... Edited June 15 by 1984Echoes Quote
lordstanley Posted June 15 Posted June 15 28 minutes ago, Shinzaki said: What do you think is a fir deal for the What do you think is a fair deal for Larkin? McTavish and a 1st would be in the ballpark. The one-sided proposal was McTavish + a 2024 1st rounder + 2025's #10 overall + 2027 1st rounder + 2027 2nd rounder. 1 Quote
buddha Posted June 15 Posted June 15 36 minutes ago, Shinzaki said: What do you think is a fir deal for the What do you think is a fair deal for Larkin? something similar to the eichel deal. one good prospect. one young filler 3rd line piece. one first round pick. one second or third round pick. Quote
gehringer_2 Posted June 16 Posted June 16 1 hour ago, buddha said: something similar to the eichel deal. one good prospect. one young filler 3rd line piece. one first round pick. one second or third round pick. That's what I'd be looking for, but my fear is that Yzerman is going to look to replace Larkin in kind, and that's going to mean no big development boost. Quote
Shinzaki Posted June 16 Posted June 16 2 hours ago, lordstanley said: McTavish and a 1st would be in the ballpark. The one-sided proposal was McTavish + a 2024 1st rounder + 2025's #10 overall + 2027 1st rounder + 2027 2nd rounder. Way too light... Quote
Shinzaki Posted June 16 Posted June 16 The market has changed considerably since 2021. Fewer high end players are available via FA...changes have to come via trade. Today...I want considerably more for a 1/2C with 5 years to go on a cheap deal Quote
buddha Posted June 16 Posted June 16 dylan larkin scored ONE five on five goal in 2026. ONE. youre talking about him like he's conor freaking mcdavid. larkin is a good nhl center. not great, not a #1 center on a championship team, but definitely a #2 center on such a club. Quote
buddha Posted June 16 Posted June 16 46 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: That's what I'd be looking for, but my fear is that Yzerman is going to look to replace Larkin in kind, and that's going to mean no big development boost. you find every opportunity to dis steve yzerman. Quote
Jason_R Posted June 16 Posted June 16 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: That's what I'd be looking for, but my fear is that Yzerman is going to look to replace Larkin in kind, and that's going to mean no big development boost. Unless the trade is to Dallas, there will be no possibility of replacing Larkin with a comparable player. But they need at least one established center to come back. I saw a report earlier that Florida has made an offer. Multiple teams will make an offer. Hopefully the interest is strong enough to raise the market price. Quote
buddha Posted June 16 Posted June 16 5 minutes ago, Jason_R said: Unless the trade is to Dallas, there will be no possibility of replacing Larkin with a comparable player. But they need at least one established center to come back. I saw a report earlier that Florida has made an offer. Multiple teams will make an offer. Hopefully the interest is strong enough to raise the market price. barzal or hischier are both supposedly gettable. both are comparable to larkin. im not sure why the isles would make that deal. given the upcoming contract hischier is going to get, maybe the wings get a second rounder out of it too. i'm not saying i would make those deals - i think this is a good chanve to re-set the team around raymond-seider - but i bet you could find a center comparable to larkin. Quote
buddha Posted June 16 Posted June 16 if you all think debrincat is worth the #2 pick in the draft PLUS, then what would san jose give up for robertson? celebrini? lol. Quote
1984Echoes Posted June 16 Author Posted June 16 I would still be interested in EP40. Especially if it involves dumping a salary match contract like Compher. But what do they want and what is a realistic offer that they would end up accepting (they're certainly not getting a pie-in-the-sky offer although that's what they really want...) for EP? Just askin'... Quote
Jason_R Posted June 16 Posted June 16 31 minutes ago, buddha said: barzal or hischier are both supposedly gettable. both are comparable to larkin. im not sure why the isles would make that deal. given the upcoming contract hischier is going to get, maybe the wings get a second rounder out of it too. i'm not saying i would make those deals - i think this is a good chanve to re-set the team around raymond-seider - but i bet you could find a center comparable to larkin. I haven’t seen NYI or NJ reported as being involved in conversations about Larkin. They might be but I haven’t heard much about them. Still seems most likely that a young but established C with upside comes back with prospect and pick. Quote
buddha Posted June 16 Posted June 16 29 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: I would still be interested in EP40. Especially if it involves dumping a salary match contract like Compher. But what do they want and what is a realistic offer that they would end up accepting (they're certainly not getting a pie-in-the-sky offer although that's what they really want...) for EP? Just askin'... theyre going to ask for the same things youre asking for when it comes to larkin. they wont get them either. Quote
Shinzaki Posted June 16 Posted June 16 11 hours ago, buddha said: dylan larkin scored ONE five on five goal in 2026. ONE. youre talking about him like he's conor freaking mcdavid. larkin is a good nhl center. not great, not a #1 center on a championship team, but definitely a #2 center on such a club. A little hyperbolic...no? He's scored 30+ goals five straight season and was a key guy on the Four Countries and Olympic teams...you act like he's Joe Veleno. Find me another C available with that contract Quote
Mr.TaterSalad Posted June 16 Posted June 16 11 hours ago, buddha said: if you all think debrincat is worth the #2 pick in the draft PLUS, then what would san jose give up for robertson? celebrini? lol. I think either Larkin or DeBrincat are worth the #2 pick straight up. My proposals and thoughts have largely been along the lines of a one for one. This rebuild has failed and we need to wipe the slate clean. Quote
gehringer_2 Posted June 16 Posted June 16 (edited) 12 hours ago, buddha said: you find every opportunity to dis steve yzerman. that's only a dis if you want a rebuild, if you think he is on the right road, it's what he should do. But sure, the bloom is off Yzerman for me. Tampa's worst point % since Yzerman left is 598 and they played 11 players this season that they drafted since Yzerman left - which can only leave you wondering how much of his success there was a function of that Tampa staff, which he didn't bring to Detroit. As to this staff, I find the lack of accountability for poor trading and contract outcomes a bad sign, two coaching hires had to be bounced. The fact that that the future doesn't look particularly promising after 8 years and now the player he said he was building around doesn't want to play for him. Tell me honestly that you don't think any GM not named Yzerman would have been out by now? Edited June 16 by gehringer_2 Quote
buddha Posted June 16 Posted June 16 11 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: that's only a dis if you want a rebuild, if you think he is on the right road, it's what he should do. But sure, the bloom is off Yzerman for me. Tampa's worst point % since Yzerman left is 598 and they played 11 players this season that they drafted since Yzerman left - which can only leave you wondering how much of his success there was a function of that Tampa staff, which he didn't bring to Detroit. As to this staff, I find the lack of accountability for poor trading and contract outcomes a bad sign, two coaching hires had to be bounced. The fact that that the future doesn't look particularly promising after 8 years and now the player he said he was building around doesn't want to play for him. Localevent tickets Tell me honestly that you don't think any GM not named Yzerman would have been out by now? i think yzerman's success in tampa was built upon the scouts and front office people under him. he has always said that himself. however, tampa's recent run is still built on the core players that were brought in under yzerman. that's not to take anything away from their management, they've done a great job of balancing the cap and staying competitive, but the foundation are the top picks ans savvy trades that were made when stevie was there. i think his lack of success in detroit is partially due to the old red wings club that is currently under him (and some bad lottery luck). but yzerman is in charge of who he hires to help him and is ultimately responsible for the results. to me, those results arent good enough. if he were anyone else (and in any other league besides the old boy nhl) he would have been kickes out or upstairs after last season. 1 Quote
Mr.TaterSalad Posted June 16 Posted June 16 (edited) Keep in mind that none of what I'm about to say will happen but I'm going to say it anyways. An ideal offseason for me revolves around first and foremost cleaning house in the front office, even if Yzerman stays. Anything less than wholesale changes to our front office personnel is just beating around the bush and ignoring the real problem. In particular, our scouting staffs are seemingly among the worst in the league and something needs to change there this offseason and beyond. Our entire North American scouting staff, pro and armature sides, needs to be revamped top to bottom. There are people in positions that shouldn't be there. People who haven't done their job well but are there because of their prior affiliations with this franchise and Steve Yzerman. Yzerman's friends and ex-Red Wing players, like Kris Draper and Shawn Horcoff, need to be jettisoned for new leadership and a different vision for how we move forward. He needs a new Director of Amateur Scouting in particular to replace Kris Draper. Our North American amateur scouting has been particularly awful and that falls at the feet of Draper. Who are the good North American born players they've drafted on this roster sans Larkin and Finnie? Both Draper and Horcoff (but Draper in particular) need to be replaced by people outside of the organization with new perspectives, a different vision, and a fresh set of eyes. The new Director of Amateur Scouting must be from outside the organization and have not played with Yzerman at any point in their career. They need to be given some level of autonomy to bring in some of their own individual scouts with them and the ability to revamp their scouting staff should they so chose. Our European Scouting side, lead by Hakan Andersson, has been great through the years. So I'm not making changes there. But the new Director of Amateur Scouting needs to make wholesale changes to the individual scouts we do have on the North American side if that's what they come in and feel they need to do after an evaluation of the place. This organizations pro side scouting is equally horrendous and has lead to terrible signings and overpayment of players like Appleton, Chiarot, Compher, Copp, Husso, Petry, and Perron the second time. This falls mostly on Yzerman, but also a but on Horcoff. They desperately need changes among the staff on their pro side scouting and Yzerman needs to be listening to different people. The moves in free agency they made have largely been a failure. You can count on one hand the number of free agent signings or trades that worked out (DeBrincat, Ghost, Gibson, Kane, maybe Lyon if you're being generous, ummmmm). Continuing on with these same pro-side scouts would be a failure. Jimmy Develano or Chris Ilitch needs to grab the reigns and force Yzerman to make changes. I'm normally against meddling owners. I normally like an Owner to hire their GM and let them operate with autonomy from there. I don't like the Jerry Jones type of owner who interferes with everything and is involved in every decision. But the friends, family, and ex-players plan in this front office has failed miserably and changes must be made. If he won't and Yzerman won't do it on his own accord, that's where the conversation of firing Yzerman comes in. From a roster construction standpoint, I would be looking at starting the rebuild over again as I've said here for the past week. It's time to admit the rebuild failed. It's time to acknowledge this team as presently constructed won't be winning a Cup anytime soon. They can't even make the playoffs. It's time to admit that maybe you do need a first line center, capable of producing 90+ points, more scoring depth on your second, third, and fourth lines, a tougher forecheck. Acknowledge all the deficiencies that this team has and revamp the roster top to bottom, just as you should do in the front office. Looking at this year's draft, their doesn't appear to be at first glance a true #1, high point producing center. There isn't a Bedard, Celebrini, Drisital, McDavid type prospect at the center position. To me, rebuilding the rebuild involves trading all of Larkin, DeBrincat, Faulk, and Gibson. Each of these players should be able to net you first round draft capital and/or decent prospects in return. I'm then replacing each of their roster spots with prospects down in the AHL. Larkin will be replaced by Danielson, DeBrincat replaced by Mazur, Fault replaced by ASP, and Gibson replaced by Cossa or Postava or Augustine. I might be willing to sign a veteran or two to a short-term deal, but that's it. Playing NHL 26 and making my fantasy GM trades for all of these players would look something like this in an ideal world. Detroit + San Jose Trade Detroit gets: #2 pick overall in the 2026 draft, San Jose gets: Alex DeBrincat Detroit + Minnesota + Anaheim Trade Detroit gets: Charlie Stramel/C (Minnesota), Danila Yurov/RW-C (Minnesota), 2027 1st (Minnesota), Roger McQueen/C (Anaheim), Lukas Dostal/G (Anaheim), 2027 1st (Anaheim), Minnesota gets: Dylan Larkin, Anaheim gets: John Gibson and Justin Faulk. Edited June 16 by Mr.TaterSalad Quote
Mr.TaterSalad Posted June 16 Posted June 16 1 minute ago, slothfacekilla said: God these trades need to happen already Welcome to the most exciting and news worthy offseason since Kenny left and Stevie came in. Quote
Jason_R Posted June 16 Posted June 16 I do not believe tanking is necessary. I do not believe a clean sweep of the front office is necessary. But I sure as hell hope that when Stevie met with Chris Ilitch at the end of the season, Chris offered to make additional investments in analytics, and if so I hope Stevie took him up on this. The Wings are already behind here and Carolina’s Cup win is an indicator of how far behind we are. Quote
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