05/19/2026 6:40p EDT Cleveland Guardians at Detroit Tigers

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, monkeytargets39 said:

This is what I want right now:

1.) Keith (3B)

2.) McGonigle (SS)

3.) Dingler (C)

4.) Greene (LF)

5.) Anderson (2B)

6.) Vierling (CF)

7.) Malgeri (RF)

8.) Jung (DH)

9.) Torkelson (1B)

Bench: McKinstry, Rogers, Jones, Lee

Torkelson and Keith still have ways to get on base even if the power isn’t there, so put them back to back—but if Tork can’t perform out of the nine hole then he goes to Toledo when Gleyber is back.

McGonigle needs to actually have chances to hit with guys on base….stop leading him off.  He hits a lot of balls down the right field line so if someone is on base ahead of him they can go first to third easily on a lot of McGs hits.

Dingler and Greene are the only real power threats—so you go Ding 3 and Riley 4 to break up the L/R stretch.

DFA Short and Vanasco, call up Anderson and Malgeri.  Send Wenceel Perez to Toledo.  See if these two guys can be a spark in the lineup.

Workman has been abysmal defensively and he’s striking out at almost a 45% clip.  Demote him back to Toledo and call up Jung—who can at least draw a walk and give us some defensive options to get Tork out of the lineup some days.  Keep Lee and McKinstry for defensive versatility and so we can use McKinstry in the outfield more for now.

Vierling is perfectly fine as the 4th outfielder and can play CF every day for now.  
 

Rotation: Valdez, Mize, Montero, Anderson, Bullpen Day.  
 

Bullpen: Flaherty (can be an opener), Hurter, Holton, Vest, Jansen, Finnegan, Smith, Seabold, Sommers.  Maybe Flaherty can reinvent himself as a short-inning guy.

DFA DeJesus now and leave the 40-man spot open for when Melton/JV need to come off the 60-day.  Holton can be next to go to Toledo.

 

 

Does this fix everything?  Probably not.  But insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expecting different results.  Hold players accountable for their performance.  We are 1/3 of the way through the season.

I don't know much about Malgeri but I would bet that if we brought him up and handed him the job, we'd be agitating to run him out of town on a rail within the space of a couple weeks.

Speaking of running guys out of town, if the organization were to start a campaign to put Tork on the clock for the purposes of running him out of town in a trade by batting him ninth and then optioning him out, we'd be reducing his trade value to that of throw-in at best.

Edited 1 hour ago by chasfh

[monkeytargets39]

7 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I don't know much about Malgeri but I would bet that if we brought him up and handed him the job, we'd be agitating to run him out of town on a rail within the space of a couple weeks.

Speaking of running guys out of town, if the organization were to start a campaign to put Tork on the clock for the purposes of running him out of town in a trade by batting him ninth and then optioning him out, we'd be reducing his trade value to that of throw-in at best.

We’ve already been batting him 8th.  I’d argue he’s a throw-in at best right now anyway with how poor his defensive metrics have been.

[kdog]

Jung is closer to a DFA than a callup.

[Sports_Freak]

2 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Analytics is exactly what you want to use long term.  You lost that argument a long time ago.  I guess short-term, you could try different things, but there aren't a hell of a lot of options right now.

Or they could fire Hinch and Harris and bring in some old school guys that will shake things up and play the hunches?

 

Short term, huh? What did the Tigers have? A 15 game lead last August? Yeah, there were pretty obvious hitting (and scoring runs) problems. So we went out and signed...pitching and ignored the most obvious and bigger needs....because....analytics? I guess we can see who lost that argument....the fans. But it's OK...we'll win the division because....again...analytics say so. Stay the course and keep running out the same guys every day. Un-huh.

And BTW? Who said anything about firing Hinch or Harris? We made the playoffs 2 years in a row and even won a couple of series. But making the team better is a goal that many would like to see.

[Tiger337]

7 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Short term, huh? What did the Tigers have? A 15 game lead last August? Yeah, there were pretty obvious hitting (and scoring runs) problems. So we went out and signed...pitching and ignored the most obvious and bigger needs....because....analytics? I guess we can see who lost that argument....the fans. But it's OK...we'll win the division because....again...analytics say so. Stay the course and keep running out the same guys every day. Un-huh.

And BTW? Who said anything about firing Hinch or Harris? We made the playoffs 2 years in a row and even won a couple of series. But making the team better is a goal that many would like to see.

Not sure what any of that has to do with analytics.  Most teams are heavily using analytics now, because they can no longer survive without it.  You lost that argument a long time ago and I don't know why it's still a debate.  

Teams ALWAYS need pitching and there was more pitching available at the deadline than hitting.  I don't think analytics told them to sign Morton and Paddack.  Those guys were signed because they were cheap and would give them innings.  By the way, you were begging them to sign Suarez and he sucked after the deadline. Your gut failed you.  

 

 

 

 

[Sports_Freak]

1 minute ago, Tiger337 said:

Not sure what any of that has to do with analytics.  Most teams are heavily using analytics now, because they can no longer survive without it.  You lost that argument a long time ago and I don't know why it's still a debate.  

Teams ALWAYS need pitching and there was more pitching available at the deadline than hitting.  I don't think analytics told them to sign Morton and Paddack.  Those guys were signed because they were cheap and would give them innings.  By the way, you were begging them to sign Suarez and he sucked after the deadline. Your gut failed you.  

 

 

 

 

The off-season. We needed hitting and spent, overspent, on pitching. We. Needed. Hitting. We. Signed. Pitching. Doesn't analytics say a team needs to score runs? Kinda basic baseball, no?

[Tiger337]

5 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

The off-season. We needed hitting and spent, overspent, on pitching. We. Needed. Hitting. We. Signed. Pitching. Doesn't analytics say a team needs to score runs? Kinda basic baseball, no?

You can never ever have too much pitching! Their strategy was to win with great pitching and an average offense which is a defensible strategy.  It was working pretty well until everybody got hurt. 

How can you say they didn't need pitching when a couple of weeks ago (before Mize came back) they didn't have enough pitchers to get through a series?  Which batter did you realistically want them to get?  Was it Suarez again?  Because he sucks this year too.  

Edited 17 minutes ago by Tiger337

[Sports_Freak]

4 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Not sure what any of that has to do with analytics.  Most teams are heavily using analytics now, because they can no longer survive without it.  You lost that argument a long time ago and I don't know why it's still a debate.  

Teams ALWAYS need pitching and there was more pitching available at the deadline than hitting.  I don't think analytics told them to sign Morton and Paddack.  Those guys were signed because they were cheap and would give them innings.  By the way, you were begging them to sign Suarez and he sucked after the deadline. Your gut failed you.  

 

 

 

 

You dont seem to understand. Its not the use of stats that bothers me. Its the misuse of them. What possible analytic looked at the Detroit offense from last season and said we didnt need more and better hitters to consistency score more runs? Whoever looked at this team and decided we needed pitching was....wrong. spending millions of dollars on Valdez? We would have been better off signing a corner outfielder and a DH type. But yeah, losing that argument only means we have a team thats soon to be 10 games out of 1st place. Maybe when Javy, Carp and Torres get back, we'll make a run? Or...maybe not?

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, monkeytargets39 said:

We’ve already been batting him 8th.  I’d argue he’s a throw-in at best right now anyway with how poor his defensive metrics have been.

Batting 8th is a lot better than 9th, psycholoogically.

[gehringer_2]

17 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't think analytics told them to sign Morton and Paddack.  Those guys were signed because they were cheap and would give them innings. 

this of course is the crux, it's not what you know, it's how you use it, and whether in the end you are better on the field. The Tigers' analytics dept may be every bit as good as Cleveland's, and Hinch may be a more analytically well versed manager than whoever has sat in that chair in Cleveland, but for some reason they keep having as much or more success rotating in effective players over time. Or TL,DR version - just because you use analytics is no guarantee you are going to make the most optimal choices. I think in the main the failure in this org is still its lack of success finding players in Latin America. Something like 30-40 of all MLB talent originates outside the US and the Tigers seem to still be missing the boat there completely.That means the development end is playing with one hand tied behind its back.

Edited 9 minutes ago by gehringer_2

[chasfh]

44 minutes ago, kdog said:

Jung is closer to a DFA than a callup.

Out of reactions, but Like.

[Sports_Freak]

1 minute ago, Tiger337 said:

You can never ever have too much pitching! Their strategy was to win with great pitching and an average offense which is a defensible strategy.  It was working pretty well until everybody got hurt. 

How can you say they didn't need pitching when a couple of weeks ago (before Mize came back) they didn't have enough pitchers to get through a series?  Which batter did you realistically want them to get?  Was it Suarez again?  Because he sucks this year too.  

I dont know, I'm not a baseball executive studying analytics. People in charge of the team are responsible for success or failures of the team. The last couple of years were pretty successful but that is NO reason to try to improve. And again....hitting and scoring runs were a problem heading into the off-season. That problem wasn't addressed.

[NorthWoods]

Indians pitchers call special meeting:

#Tigers lineup today vs. Cleveland Guardians: Matt Vierling (CF) Kevin McGonigle (3B) Jahmai Jones (DH) Dillon Dingler (C) Riley Greene (LF) Spencer Torkelson (1B) Wenceel Pérez (RF) Hao-Yu Lee (2B) Zack Short (SS) Keider Montero (RHP)

[Sports_Freak]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

I don't know much about Malgeri but I would bet that if we brought him up and handed him the job, we'd be agitating to run him out of town on a rail within the space of a couple weeks.

Speaking of running guys out of town, if the organization were to start a campaign to put Tork on the clock for the purposes of running him out of town in a trade by batting him ninth and then optioning him out, we'd be reducing his trade value to that of throw-in at best.

Is there a 1st baseman who is worse that Tork? One who plays every day? The Tigers have been very patient with him. I doubt many teams would be so patient. His value, right now, is worth nothing. I doubt we could give him away, find a team to take on whatever his salary is? Doubtful.

[Tiger337]

2 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

You dont seem to understand. Its not the use of stats that bothers me. Its the misuse of them. What possible analytic looked at the Detroit offense from last season and said we didnt need more and better hitters to consistency score more runs? Whoever looked at this team and decided we needed pitching was....wrong. spending millions of dollars on Valdez? We would have been better off signing a corner outfielder and a DH type. But yeah, losing that argument only means we have a team thats soon to be 10 games out of 1st place. Maybe when Javy, Carp and Torres get back, we'll make a run? Or...maybe not?

Which star outfielder did you want them to buy at the outfielder store?  You don't think the Tigers don't know that a great hitter would improve their team?  They probably looked at the players available and determined that improving their pitching would be easier to do given their budget.  Again, how can you say that they didn't need pitching given all the injuries they have had?  They were in pretty good shape before all the injuries hit both the offense and pitching.  

[Tiger337]

9 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

I dont know, I'm not a baseball executive studying analytics. People in charge of the team are responsible for success or failures of the team. The last couple of years were pretty successful but that is NO reason to try to improve. And again....hitting and scoring runs were a problem heading into the off-season. That problem wasn't addressed.

They adressed it with McGonigle.  

[Sports_Freak]

3 minutes ago, NorthWoods said:

Indians pitchers call special meeting:

#Tigers lineup today vs. Cleveland Guardians: Matt Vierling (CF) Kevin McGonigle (3B) Jahmai Jones (DH) Dillon Dingler (C) Riley Greene (LF) Spencer Torkelson (1B) Wenceel Pérez (RF) Hao-Yu Lee (2B) Zack Short (SS) Keider Montero (RHP)

Ha-ha....are you kidding me? Seriously? Maybe we'll win and these guys can just....keep playig. I'm sure over the next 10 games, we may even win another one.  SMH