05/26/2026 6:40p EDT Los Angeles Angels at Detroit Tigers

[casimir]

9 hours ago, kdog said:

 

Vest was at 33 pitches after walking Trout.  But two outs and a runner on first before that.  So at what point before the 33 does a manager get the next guy up and ready after Trout is walked?

[chasfh]

10 hours ago, kdog said:

Tork and Wenceel would be gone in a normal roster year. Now they are just stuck playing these corpses every night.

I don’t think Tork would be gone. I think they either believe Tork maybe can still be saved or, more likely, they have to put him out there because they have to put someone out there and we have no one else who’s remarkably better, and also, front office is hoping for a lucky run at the right time to make Tork a more tradeable asset as Briceno or Liranzo come online.

Edited Wednesday at 12:09 PM by chasfh

[Shelton]

5 minutes ago, casimir said:

Vest was at 33 pitches after walking Trout.  But two outs and a runner on first before that.  So at what point before the 33 does a manager get the next guy up and ready after Trout is walked?

Yeah, I’m with AJ on this one. I’m all for challenging the manager on certain decisions, or getting a quote for his reaction to boneheaded plays, but the issue in this case not that Will Vest was left in too long. I saw the press conference video and he was pissed at the question. The follow up asking about vierling’s lazy throw and wenceel’s terrible fielding (in the vest inning) was well received and he gave a good answer. 
 

I didn’t catch who asked the question about the vest pitch count. 

[chasfh]

10 hours ago, IdahoBert said:

Actually Liam Hicks has 11 home runs… So it’s even worse…

He was a AA player and we had no place to put him. But, yeah, always galling to see.

[casimir]

4 minutes ago, Shelton said:

The follow up asking about vierling’s lazy throw and wenceel’s terrible fielding (in the vest inning) was well received and he gave a good answer. 

What was the commentary on the defense?  Besides it was little leagueish.

[chasfh]

10 hours ago, NorthWoods said:

I still think its a leadership issue in the clubhouse.    There is no dog in there to motivate them and/or to call people out.  

I’m starting to wonder whether we have the right development people in place up and down the system. If there’s a shake-up, I’d guess that’s where it would be. The suck is pretty prevalent throughout the minors. Have you seen the mess West Michigan is lately?

[chasfh]

25 minutes ago, casimir said:

It was the attention whores that should be wearing shirts that were chanting it.  They deserve the 2026 Tigers.

There are things I can say about these tarps off jackwagons that don’t belong in this particular forum, but I will say that when Ohtani came up to bat in the Dodgers-Brewers game Saturday night, they chanted “USA! USA!”, and it was noticeable and off-putting.

[kdog]

21 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I don’t think Tork would be gone. I think they either believe Tork maybe can still be saved or, more likely, they have to put him out there because they have to put someone out there and we have no one else who’s remarkably better, and also, front office is hoping for a lucky run at the right time to make Tork a more tradeable asset as Briceno or Liranzo come online.

The other problem is the lack of right handed power throughout the game. Tork would be gobbled up by another team real quick.

[NorthWoods]

4 minutes ago, kdog said:

The other problem is the lack of right handed power throughout the game. Tork would be gobbled up by another team real quick.

I'm sure he would.   Then they can watch him fail, or perhaps cure whatever it is that ails him.

[Shelton]

23 minutes ago, casimir said:

What was the commentary on the defense?  Besides it was little leagueish.

It was mostly confirmi my that it was bad. Vierling (“we”) didn’t play fast enough, kind of threw it in off balance, and Neto went all out and gave himself a chance to make a decision at third to capitalize on our mistake. 
 

Wenceel, it looked like he was tracking it and then suddenly he didn’t have it. Need to look at it closer to see if he made a bad decision or if it became uncatchable, but it seemed like it could have been caught. 
 

Diplomatic, but not hiding from it. 

[Shelton]

25 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I’m starting to wonder whether we have the right development people in place up and down the system. If there’s a shake-up, I’d guess that’s where it would be. The suck is pretty prevalent throughout the minors. Have you seen the mess West Michigan is lately?

Always possible that the people you grant authority don’t actually have the skills to carry out management’s plan. That kind of applies across industries obviously and isn’t always immediately apparent. 
 

That said, I'm not sure how much that affects clubhouse leadership. Also hard to know what goes on behind the scenes. Kind of feels like clubhouse leadership is like the old pornogroahy definition. 
 

I don’t think Greene has it. Tork seems like he could be the type but unfortunately you do have be sort of good. Gleyber and Javy feel like they might have it but they aren’t out there. 
 

A guy like Neto for the angels, he seems to have it. He wasn’t shy about talking **** to Skubal last year. And then he goes out and shows it on the field. 
 

Yes, this is old school beat writer bull****. But I do think that you need a guy inside that can be a counter to Hinch’s professorial affect. It doesn’t need to be a white guy with a beard, but I wouldn’t mind seeing some actual emotion. This **** is piling up and it’s ok to lose your mind every once in a while. 
 

Leave the level-headed logical crap to management. 

[RatkoVarda]

thinking back to this quote which terrified me when i read it in December.

Detroit has not, however, made any major moves to improve its performance at the plate after an uneven season offensively. The Tigers finished one game behind AL Central champion Cleveland, defeated the Guardians in a three-game series and lost to Seattle in a division series.

Harris said the team is counting on returning players to develop during the offseason.

"Just because a lot of the names are the same, doesn't mean the team is the same," Harris said.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/47337394/aj-hinch-call-kenley-jansen-closes-tigers-gm-says

Marginal players, like Vierling, McKinstry, Perez and Jones already had their best seasons. Once Tork collapsed and the injuries piled up, they were f*****. 

[gehringer_2]

11 hours ago, kdog said:

 

AJ, I'm afraid the evidence of our eyes says you were/are flat wrong. Hinch is really struggling with denial.

He wants to be able to game plan and have things go to plan and when the players don't perform, there is apparently no plan B. Right now the three pitchers he needs to be shut down guys  - Janson, Vest and Holton, are just not pitching that way, so maybe when your guy isn't getting outs you get off plan "A" before the GS leave the yeard? Sure you'd prefer to have all the moves match your R/L planning, but are you just going to lose all the games when they don't. It was pretty clear Vest was not sharp before the bases were loaded. Watch the damn game you are managing as much as your spreadsheet.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Shelton said:

Wenceel, it looked like he was tracking it and then suddenly he didn’t have it. Need to look at it closer to see if he made a bad decision or if it became uncatchable, but it seemed like it could have been caught. 

it was the classic OF error. The tendency is always to run to meet the ball, the better OF runs ahead of the ball to give himself time to adjust at the point of the catch. Wenceel got near the wall, didn't have a few millseconds extra to get his bearings, and shied back from the wall, that's exactly why he missed it. His arm pulled back reflexively at the wall even though he had the room. He learned the game as an IF.

Edited Wednesday at 01:55 PM by gehringer_2

[Sports_Freak]

3 hours ago, romad1 said:

2008 was like this. 

Many of us expected 1000 runs.

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, Shelton said:

Wenceel, it looked like he was tracking it and then suddenly he didn’t have it. Need to look at it closer to see if he made a bad decision or if it became uncatchable, but it seemed like it could have been caught. 

It seemed to glance off his glove as he was pulling up short at the wall. It was a legitimately difficult major league catch, but an average right fielder probably makes that play, and a good RF definitely makes it.

[Shelton]

3 minutes ago, chasfh said:

It seemed to glance off his glove as he was pulling up short at the wall. It was a legitimately difficult major league catch, but an average right fielder probably makes that play, and a good RF definitely makes it.

I was just paraphrasing AJ’s response. I saw it agree with you that the play should have been made. I will add that I think an average outfielders is comfortably below that ball without needing to reach or jump or anything of that nature. 
 

Can we look that up in one of the catch probability databases?

[romad1]

6 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Many of us expected 1000 runs.

when Dontrelle Willis is sucking down the team every 5th day, Justin Verlander is 11 and 17 with a near 5 ERA and guys like Magglio and Carlos Guillen were breaking down and everything looks stupid.  The next season however, they got into Game 163 (after a stupid Twins surge).  

So, we need to sweep away a lot of chaff and get the core right for the next 5 years.  That might not include Skubal but perhaps it includes the Max Scherzer type SP we get for Skubal. 

[Sports_Freak]

2 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

I was pulling for Veirling, but I'm done with him too.   This was his chance to show he's an actual major league player and he's just crapped his pants.    Move on from him too.   Try anything.   Just do something different, but they've fallen so far out of even the worst division that it's just over now.   

Again, please tell me why A.J. Hinch seems so untouchable. 

IDK, RF seems to be his position. Get a centerfielder, put Matt in RF and release Perez. Perez was helpful the last 2 seasons but it's time for a serious team to move on from him. Vierling is decent in RF, he woulda caught that ball last night.

Harris shoulda been on the phone with every team trying to acquire a CF the day Javy got hurt. Just deciding to use Perez was the lazy solution to a serious problem. Totally wasting the Tigers expensive payroll.

[romad1]

1 minute ago, romad1 said:

when Dontrelle Willis is sucking down the team every 5th day, Justin Verlander is 11 and 17 with a near 5 ERA and guys like Magglio and Carlos Guillen were breaking down and everything looks stupid.  The next season however, they got into Game 163 (after a stupid Twins surge).  

So, we need to sweep away a lot of chaff and get the core right for the next 5 years.  That might not include Skubal but perhaps it includes the Max Scherzer type SP we get for Skubal. 

Holy crap Dontrelle Willis was on the team in 2009.  Talk about a long-slow-death to a career. 

[Sports_Freak]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

There are things I can say about these tarps off jackwagons that don’t belong in this particular forum, but I will say that when Ohtani came up to bat in the Dodgers-Brewers game Saturday night, they chanted “USA! USA!”, and it was noticeable and off-putting.

Mob mentality.

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, kdog said:

The other problem is the lack of right handed power throughout the game. Tork would be gobbled up by another team real quick.

Maybe, although I wouldn't think Harris would rush to flip him for the first guy we're offered who can fog a mirror.

[Shelton]

37 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

AJ, I'm afraid the evidence of our eyes says you were/are flat wrong. Hinch is really struggling with denial.

He wants to be able to game plan and have things go to plan and when the players don't perform, there is apparently no plan B. Right now the three pitchers he needs to be shut down guys  - Janson, Vest and Holton, are just not pitching that way, so maybe when your guy isn't getting outs you get off plan "A" before the GS leave the yeard? Sure you'd prefer to have all the moves match your R/L planning, but are you just going to lose all the games when they don't. It was pretty clear Vest was not sharp before the bases were loaded. Watch the damn game you are managing as much as your spreadsheet.

Hard disagree. Of all the things that went wrong, not having someone already warmed after vest was forced into having to get multiple outs due to wenceel’s “defense” is way down the list for me. 
 

I don’t think AJ is in denial about anything. He was absolutely fine until he wasn’t. That specific scenario happens all the time, and it sucks when it happens to your team. 

[Shelton]

33 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

it was the classic OF error. The tendency is always to run to meet the ball, the better OF runs ahead of the ball to give himself time to adjust at the point of the catch. Wenceel got near the wall, didn't have a few millseconds extra to get his bearings, and shied back from the wall, that's exactly why he missed it. His arm pulled back reflexively at the wall even though he had the room. He learned the game as an IF.

It is important to me that I defend myself to a stranger on the internet and clarify again that I was paraphrasing what AJ said. 
 

I personally saw it and think it was bad for all of the reasons you mentioned and that we all saw multiple times. 
 

Wenceel is a bad outfielder. 

Edited Wednesday at 02:26 PM by Shelton

[Sports_Freak]

7 minutes ago, romad1 said:

when Dontrelle Willis is sucking down the team every 5th day, Justin Verlander is 11 and 17 with a near 5 ERA and guys like Magglio and Carlos Guillen were breaking down and everything looks stupid.  The next season however, they got into Game 163 (after a stupid Twins surge).  

So, we need to sweep away a lot of chaff and get the core right for the next 5 years.  That might not include Skubal but perhaps it includes the Max Scherzer type SP we get for Skubal. 

You expect Harris to pull off a trade for a Hall of Fame, cost controlled type pitcher for a guy who wants $40 million for 10 years? Good luck with that...we may get a 5th outfielder type, a relief pitcher and a lottery ticket. 😆😆