Larkin wants out?

[Hongbit]

10 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I do think they would trade #2 overall for Larkin though. With Larkin they could have him anchor the second line while Misa develops. They can also move a guy like Alexander Wennberg over to wing to be a linemate for Larkin.

 

2 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I know 3-way trades don't happen often in the NHL, but I would love to get San Jose involved with us and Dallas on a Robertson trade. Larkin to Dallas, Robertson to San Jose, the #2 overall pick to Detroit. There's no point in having Robertson on this team without a center to pair him with. Who is going to facilitate the offense on the first line and feed him the pick with Larkin gone? Andrew Copp? Marco Kasper? JT Compher? A rookie in Nate Danielson?  Michael Rasmussen? Look at the best centers set to hit free agency. Jason Dickinson, Jack Roslovic, Erik Huala, Scott Laughton. Are you kidding me. Why would Robertson want to stay to play here with who we have at center for him. He'll demand a trade and we'll be right back in the same boat.

Demographics

 

Unless I can use Robertson to get the high draft capital or top prospects I really want so that we can start the rebuild over again, no thanks.

A top 3 pick hasn’t been traded since 2003.   It’s not likely to happen.   I

If it did somehow happen, there’s no way in the world a trade would happen without SJ getting another high first round in return.   There’s no way in the galaxy that it would happen straight up for a 30 year old Dylan Larkin.   

Edited June 22 by Hongbit

[Mr.TaterSalad]

28 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

 

A top 3 pick hasn’t been traded since 2003.   It’s not likely to happen.   I

If it did somehow happen, there’s no way in the world a trade would happen without SJ getting another high first round in return.   There’s no way in the galaxy that it would happen straight up for a 30 year old Dylan Larkin.   

Most teams don't usually trade their #1 center who has produced 70 or more points 3 times in his career. How often are players like Larkin on the trade market? You saw what Brady Tkachuk netted and he's a winger, not a center. I think this is a unique situation at the right timing.

The timing is right for Detroit (as right as it can ever be in a failed rebuild) in that it allows us to get the top 3 pick we never had under Yzerman. It's right for Dallas because Larkin gives them a good center on a very team friendly deal and gives them cap flexibility to make more moves as needed. It's right for San Jose because it gives them an elite, young, under 28 goal scorer at the wing to pair with Celebrini or Misa for years to come. No garauntees the player you draft at #2 will be as good as Robertson is. 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

15 hours ago, buddha said:

this will sound strange, but if i'm detroit, is the #2 pick this year something i want?

is viggo a future superstar?

First off Toronto is a dumb organization, who has a repeated history of doing dumb things. So in the event they do something dumb, like pass on Gavin McKenna, you are there to take him. That's highly unlikely, but still probable only because it's Toronto. But let's set aside the idea that Toronto will be dumb and pass on McKenna for a second and be more realistic.

The Swedish winger Ivar Stenberg would probably be next on my list of guys I would draft. MSU defenseman Chase Reid is also an intriguing prospect. While this draft lacks a true #1, dominate center prospect, Caleb Malhotra wouldn't be a terrible player to pick at #2. I've seen projections and player comparisons all over the place for Malhotra; comparisons ranging from Nic Suzuki to Anton Lundell to his father Manny Malhotra. Ironically, I think he projects to be a Dylan Larkin like player. If you think he can be your Nic Suzuki though, I think you take him.

Edited June 23 by Mr.TaterSalad

[Cruzer1]

This year's talent just isn't jumping off the page. It reminds me of the year that the Rangers had the first pick. Next year's draft is better. We should see alot of #1 prospect Landon DuPont, who I saw plenty of as a teammate of Carter Bear for Everett.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

If we trade Larkin straight up for Robertson or insert NHL player here we are going to be in the same position as this past year, at best. If Robertson or any wing is the trade piece we get back, we're doubly screwed. Unless Yzerman has some grand plan to get a center as good or better than Larkin, who is going to be our #1 center if Robertson or a wing are the return in a trade? You cannot have Marco Kasper, Andrew Copp, or JT Compher as your team's #1 center, you just cannot. Nate Danielson wasn't even ready for a 4th line spot at center, let alone being thrown into the fire that is a top line in the NHL.

But here's the bigger problem with acquiring Jason Robertson specifically and not getting a #1 center somewhere else in free agency or via another trade. If you acquire Robertson, lose Larkin, and then end up with no true Larkin replacement, we'll be bad enough not to make the playoffs. But, we'll also be not quite bad enough to be in contention for a top 3 pick next year. We'll put ourselves out of contention for a Jaxon Jacobson or Landon DuPont when we're picking outside the top 5 in the 2027 draft. By doing so, we'll be stuck in purgatory. We'll be the Detroit Pistons from 2009-2023. Does anyone want to see this? Does anyone have any real confidence that Yzerman will be able to get another top center to replace Larkin this year? If so, who is that guy?

The scenario above would be a disaster for this organization and it would turn the Wings into a lifeless, boring team to watch. I dread that we'll get an underwhelming return for Larkin. I dread that Yzerman and Jimmy D will refuse to blow it all up and start the rebuild over. I dread that we'll end up in purgatory like the Pistons teams of the 2010s where on Stan Van Gundy's and Troy Weaver's leadership.

I'll continue to shout it from the hilltops that with Larkin requesting a trade, we must take advantage of this and rebuild the rebuild. We have to tank over the next 3-4 seasons to hit the reset button on this failed rebuild. We have to give ourselves the chance to get a true #1 center like a Jaxon Jacobson or at least a top-tier prospect like Landon DuPont in next year's draft. We have to add more high-end, scoring talent to this roster and more scoring depth on the bottom two lines. I dread to think what happens if the scenario above plays out and we don't take advantage of this gifted opportunity to hit the reset button on our failed rebuild.

Edited June 23 by Mr.TaterSalad

[gehringer_2]

3 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I dread that we'll end up in purgatory like the Pistons teams of the 2010s where on Stan Van Gundy's and Troy Weaver's leadership.

yes, this is the risk. Center is already the team's weakest position. There is no Larkin out there on another team they can do a swap with.So it's pretty much baked in that they can't be as good short term at center after dealing Larkin. So I agree with you that Yzerman has to decide what he's trying to do. Maybe if you get some high picks to go with a fill-in body you have a shot at being better there in a couple of years if you hit on a pick and Danielson and Kasper pan out a little. To me that seems the only rational choice. Nobody that takes on Larkin is giving up a comparable center to get him, because it makes little sense --- other than a "malcontent for malcontent" trade like Larkin for Elias Petterssen, but no way Larkin is signing off on going to Vancouver assuming the Wings would even consider bringing in one unhappy player to replace another. So unless Yzerman can pull some kind of rabbit out of the hat, I don't see how they don't step back short term.

[Hongbit]

20 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

yes, this is the risk. Center is already the team's weakest position. There is no Larkin out there on another team they can do a swap with.So it's pretty much baked in that they can't be as good short term at center after dealing Larkin. So I agree with you that Yzerman has to decide what he's trying to do. Maybe if you get some high picks to go with a fill-in body you have a shot at being better there in a couple of years if you hit on a pick and Danielson and Kasper pan out a little. To me that seems the only rational choice. Nobody that takes on Larkin is giving up a comparable center to get him, because it makes little sense --- other than a "malcontent for malcontent" trade like Larkin for Elias Petterssen, but no way Larkin is signing off on going to Vancouver assuming the Wings would even consider bringing in one unhappy player to replace another. So unless Yzerman can pull some kind of rabbit out of the hat, I don't see how they don't step back short term.

Nico Hischier and Matthew Barzal are both rumored to be available.  Certainly not probable but possibilities do exist to flip Larkin for a similar Centerman.  

[lordstanley]

 

[Jason_R]

Russo: “Did I mention they are talking daily?”

[slothfacekilla]

Different than all the usual this is going to take a while chatter

[buddha]

3 minutes ago, slothfacekilla said:

Different than all the usual this is going to take a while chatter

git er done, stevie.

[Jason_R]

I have been assuming it would happen just before the draft. I still do. I suspect there are multiple offers on the table. I also suspect Stevie is letting Billy G and Pat Brisson work together to try to get Larkin to one of his preferred destinations, knowing they have to put together an acceptable package. 

I have not been assuming there would be so much other trade activity, but maybe the fact that so many GMs are making moves prompts other GMs to be more aggressive than they otherwise would have been. 

Anyway, I still feel optimistic that a deal gets done that fans will like. 

[slothfacekilla]

Seems like the Stars rumors are heating up but for some reason it just doesn't feel likely to me, but I'm a moron.

 

Sounding like his buddy Werenski is asking out too

[buddha]

The nhl is turning into the nba.

[slothfacekilla]

I guess it was only a matter of time before NHL players weaponized their NMC since the NHL GM's give them out like candy compared to other leagues.

[Cruzer1]

1 hour ago, slothfacekilla said:

Seems like the Stars rumors are heating up but for some reason it just doesn't feel likely to me, but I'm a moron.

 

Sounding like his buddy Werenski is asking out too

I don't see a match, either.

[lordstanley]

1 hour ago, slothfacekilla said:

I guess it was only a matter of time before NHL players weaponized their NMC since the NHL GM's give them out like candy compared to other leagues.

They sure do. 

 

[NorthWoods]

2 minutes ago, lordstanley said:

They sure do. 

 

It was a way to compensate for the money being not as good as other leagues.   Now the players are getting better $$ and want to retain that bit of control as leverage.

[Shinzaki]

Dallas is intriguing...signing Robertson will be extremely difficult if not impossible given their cap situation.  They can do a sign and trade with a team like Detroit or they can wait it out to see what offer sheet comes he gets signed to.  The risk there is they lose him, but get a bunch of picks..that won't help them as they are in win now mode.

Sign and trade with Detroit makes a lot of sense

[gehringer_2]

38 minutes ago, Shinzaki said:

Sign and trade with Detroit makes a lot of sense

He'd provide production and size to play opposite Raymond - just figure out who to put between them...

[buddha]

if the red wings trade larkin for robertson, they'll still finish 7th or 8th in the atlantic.  

who plays center?  andrew copp?

[gehringer_2]

6 minutes ago, buddha said:

if the red wings trade larkin for robertson, they'll still finish 7th or 8th in the atlantic.  

who plays center?  andrew copp?

that's Yzerman's dilemma. It's almost impossible to move Larkin and have the team be better next season because the only way that can happen is to get a better *center* back, but that's non-sensical, no-one is trading down with you to take Dylan Larkin unless you package Edvinsson, Seider or Raymond, and then you are *really* screwed. Or maybe you take an older star near the end of an expensive deal, get a good year or two but otherwise set yourself back overall.

Maybe you get guys back where you tread water, but the clear way forward is picks or young players and you take the step back believing you can be better in a year or two. If Yzerman's criteria on a deal is they can't take a step back, he's got to thread the tiniest of needles.

[Shinzaki]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

if the red wings trade larkin for robertson, they'll still finish 7th or 8th in the atlantic.  

who plays center?  andrew copp?

C is going to be a problem regardless..you aren't going to get a plug and play C

[buddha]

41 minutes ago, Shinzaki said:

C is going to be a problem regardless..you aren't going to get a plug and play C

unless they get ep40 and he returns to his form from 2 years ago, and they get robertson, they are destined for the bottom of the division.

the atlantic is a murderers row and the wings simply have been left behind.

[1984Echoes]

They must have been left behind at the train station because the Red Wings never even "got there" (playoffs).