06/13/2026 4:10p EDT Detroit Tigers at Cleveland Guardians

[monkeytargets39]

51 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

You don't need to fill the spot right away, so it would just stay empty until it's needed. As mentioned, that would be Verlander unless they need it for somebody else before him.

Right.  You’d figure leaving the spot open gives them some wiggle room on a trade that brings back more quantity that receives more than it sends out—à la Skubal.  
 

Otherwise maybe they add a guy like Julks or Malgeri in case there’s another OF injury.  Someone they probably wouldn’t care who would miss out on playing time next year if there’s a work stoppage

Edited June 14 by monkeytargets39

[chasfh]

14 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I guessed he would be gone once they picked up Outman and dropped Short.  One infielder and three outfielders on the bench makes no sense.  

I count two infielders and two outfielders on the bench … ?

[chasfh]

14 hours ago, papalawrence said:

Stinky game.

Stinky season.

I hate but respect Clevand. Mostly hate.

 

I’ll allow it.

[chasfh]

14 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

When he goes into one of his funks, he looks really bad. Shorten those slumps to actually help the team. Riley is a very important part of our offense.

How does a player simply “shorten a slump”? Honest question. How do you mean this?

[chasfh]

14 hours ago, monkeytargets39 said:

A sweep in this series should be the nail in the coffin for selling everything at the deadline, unfortunately.  Not only do we not make up ground but weve proven we can’t beat Cleveland 

If we sell, I think it’s going to be a targeted sale. I think they know that Tiger fans have no appetite for blowing it all up and starting over with a rebuild when we are still in the middle of one right now. I know I don’t.

[chasfh]

14 hours ago, papalawrence said:

Bummer. Scoob hit 99 with ok control and movement. Even the dinger wasn't a bad pitch. My hope bubble has deflated again. I'm more wanting Skubal to look good and bring some prospects. 

Dinger was on a pitch up and in one of Schneeman’s happy zones. He had no business jacking a bomb like that off the 2x defending Cy Young winner, but Skubal basically invited him to by leaving the ball there.

[chasfh]

14 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

He needs to read a book on "How to Make Trades" 😅😅

i don’t care if Harris makes money off stocks. 😉 

[gehringer_2]

22 minutes ago, chasfh said:

How does a player simply “shorten a slump”? Honest question. How do you mean this?

Depends why they are slumping I suppose. Off hand I can think of maybe 4 reasons, each of which probably has a different answer. (and I'm sure this list is in no way exhaustive)

1) They aren't really slumping, they are just having a run of bad BaBIP luck. This happens in baseball. Today's players are a lot luckier because things like statcast can buck up their confidence because if this is the problem, they need to hold course.

2). They've gotten off mechanically. Film study - often with sharp eyed coach.

3) Pitchers have changed their approach. This is maybe the toughest,  you have to figure out how to hit what you weren't or aren't comfortable hitting. Hit the pitching machines.

4) Your head is messed up - e.g. you've gone pull crazy or aren't working walks, or your concentration is wavering in the box, whatever. This requires the player have a full grasp of who they really are as a hitter - a  manager or coach can help encourage - or push if need be  - a hitter to be a better situational hitter. IMO this  not only causes a lot of slumps but keeps a lot of guys from even reaching their best game.

Edited June 14 by gehringer_2

[gehringer_2]

4 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Dinger was on a pitch up and in one of Schneeman’s happy zones. He had no business jacking a bomb like that off the 2x defending Cy Young winner, but Skubal basically invited him to by leaving the ball there.

agree, that was probably supposed to be at the top of the zone and the IVB wasn't his best, which it needed to be if leaving it there. 

[chasfh]

13 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Is this true?  It's something I have thought about, but I don't think it's been tested.  Most of the projection systems project to the mean, so my guess is that average players would be most accurately projected and extremely good or bad players would be less accurately projected. 

I also don't know that good players are more consistent than bad players as a bad player can be consistently bad.  Another thing is that a good player can be inconsistent within a season if he has injuries and tries to play through them.    

I think you’re right, my impression is that a player is projected as regressing some to the mean, so that, as a blunt example, the mean is 50, a great player did 90 in a season, his projection will be close to 70ext season. There’s a lot more to it of course, such as age progression, weighting multiple prior seasons, move to a new ballpark, etc., but I think that’s the general gist?

One of the things I wonder is whether a player projects less to the extreme at the other end, i.e., the mean is 50 and the players did a 10, is his projection close to 30, or is it a lot closer to around 10? The idea being that a player who is “bad”, in major league terms anyway, is probably “bad” because of the heavily right-skewed distribution of general baseball talent, with its long, thin upper tail. It’s a lot a lot easier to fall left down the tail than right up it.

[chasfh]

15 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Depends why they are slumping I suppose. Off hand I can think of maybe 4 reasons, each of which probably has a different answer. (and I'm sure this list is in no way exhaustive)

1) They aren't really slumping, they are just having a run of bad BaBIP luck. This happens in baseball. Today's players are a lot luckier because things like statcast can buck up their confidence because if this is the problem, they need to hold course.

2). They've gotten off mechanically. Film study - often with sharp eyed coach.

3) Pitchers have changed their approach. This is maybe the toughest,  you have to figure out how to hit what you weren't or aren't comfortable hitting. Hit the pitching machines.

4) Your head is messed up - e.g. you've gone pull crazy or aren't working walks, or your concentration is wavering in the box, whatever. This requires the player have a full grasp of who they really are as a hitter - a  manager or coach can help encourage - or push if need be  - a hitter to be a better situational hitter. IMO this  not only causes a lot of slumps but keeps a lot of guys from even reaching their best game.

@Sports_Freak, is this what you meant?

[Sports_Freak]

36 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Depends why they are slumping I suppose. Off hand I can think of maybe 4 reasons, each of which probably has a different answer. (and I'm sure this list is in no way exhaustive)

1) They aren't really slumping, they are just having a run of bad BaBIP luck. This happens in baseball. Today's players are a lot luckier because things like statcast can buck up their confidence because if this is the problem, they need to hold course.

2). They've gotten off mechanically. Film study - often with sharp eyed coach.

3) Pitchers have changed their approach. This is maybe the toughest,  you have to figure out how to hit what you weren't or aren't comfortable hitting. Hit the pitching machines.

4) Your head is messed up - e.g. you've gone pull crazy or aren't working walks, or your concentration is wavering in the box, whatever. This requires the player have a full grasp of who they really are as a hitter - a  manager or coach can help encourage - or push if need be  - a hitter to be a better situational hitter. IMO this  not only causes a lot of slumps but keeps a lot of guys from even reaching their best game.

Well said. I'm not sure how many apply to Riley when he goes into one of his funk9s, but if he can shorten them up, he could be a real superstar. Seriously, except for his noodle arm, he makes some really nice defensive "superman" catches. But his hitting is where he can make his mark, all the tools are there. Pretty soon, we're not longer going to be able to say, "he's still young." 😅

[Sports_Freak]

28 minutes ago, chasfh said:

@Sports_Freak, is this what you meant?

With Riley...I would say mostly #2 and #4. This is a very, very well thought out and understandable explanation of exactly what I meant. Those long uppercut swings where he misses the ball by a foot are totally maddening. We ALL know what he's capable of when he's going good, he can basically carry the team on his back, offensively. Shorten up the cold spells and the Tigers could get on a roll. And I don't know the stats, but was he in a cold spell the last 6 weeks of '25? (Along with the rest of the team?)

[Sports_Freak]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

If we sell, I think it’s going to be a targeted sale. I think they know that Tiger fans have no appetite for blowing it all up and starting over with a rebuild when we are still in the middle of one right now. I know I don’t.

Serious question, what was the last significant trade Harris made? Trading Flaherty at the deadline in '24? And fans expect him to execute a trade of, what some people consider, the best pitcher in baseball? I want Skubal extended, it's not my money. But if not, move him for the best package possible. I'm really not sure if Harris is capable of pulling that trigger, I still say there's a better chance of extending both him and Mize...wishful thinking.

[NorthWoods]

1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said:

I'm really not sure if Harris is capable of pulling that trigger, I still say there's a better chance of extending both him and Mize...wishful thinking.

I think there's a better chance of trading both of them and anyone else he can get a bag of balls for that wouldn't be considered part of the "core".   Skubal, Mize, Vierling, McKinstry, Rogers.   Flaherty if he comes back and is pitching as he has lately.   Same for JV if he can show anything.      

August/September rotation could be patched together around Valdez, Montero, Melton, Madden, Anderson.  Jobe might even get a few starts in if he suffers no setbacks.   Bring Anderson up for a look, Clark once you don't burn his rookie status.   And any of the deadline acquisitions that might be deemed ready.    

Use the last couple months to get younger around Dingler/McGonigle.   Decide  if/where Greene/Carpenter/Keith/Tork/Lee fit.  Audition the vaunted C prospects, see who replaces Jake next season.

All those kids and new faces will keep the fans interested even in the face of no post season.

 

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

With Riley...I would say mostly #2 and #4. This is a very, very well thought out and understandable explanation of exactly what I meant. Those long uppercut swings where he misses the ball by a foot are totally maddening. We ALL know what he's capable of when he's going good, he can basically carry the team on his back, offensively. Shorten up the cold spells and the Tigers could get on a roll. And I don't know the stats, but was he in a cold spell the last 6 weeks of '25? (Along with the rest of the team?)

#2, I would think is already happening. #4, I don't know how much a player can overhaul his swing during a season, particularly since there is a game every day and there's just no time to work on various different approaches. Even something like going the other way instead of pulling the ball requires mechanical changes that likely have follow-on effects to the swing downstream that could mess up everything, including the act of going the other way itself. I don't switch it's like a light switch for most guys: switch on for pulling for homers, switch off to go the other way.

[Tiger337]

3 hours ago, chasfh said:

I count two infielders and two outfielders on the bench … ?

When they acquired Outman it was 3/1  Then it became  3/2 when they proted Lee.  Soon it will probably be 2/2 assuming they drop Jones today.  

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

Serious question, what was the last significant trade Harris made? Trading Flaherty at the deadline in '24? And fans expect him to execute a trade of, what some people consider, the best pitcher in baseball? I want Skubal extended, it's not my money. But if not, move him for the best package possible. I'm really not sure if Harris is capable of pulling that trigger, I still say there's a better chance of extending both him and Mize...wishful thinking.

Trading Flaherty at the deadline could end up being a very significant trade, if Liranzo fulfills his promise and even if Sweeney comes back enough to be a solid backup piece, and both of those possibilites are still very much in the cards. Michael Lorenzen for Hao-Yu Lee may also end up being a very good trade. Not every trade has to be a mid-level prospect in exchange for a Hall of Famer for it to be a good trade.

[chasfh]

Just now, Tiger337 said:

When they acquired Outman it was 3/1  Then it became  3/2 when they proted Lee.  Soon it will probably be 2/2 assuming they drop Jones today.  

Isn't it already 2 and 2? At the time they acquired Outman, In the infield I've got Tork, Torres, Kevin, and one of McKinstry, Colt, and Hao-Yu, leaving two. In the outfield I see Riley and two of Vierling, Wenceel, Outman, and Carp, leaving two on the bench. I don't even see Jones in the mix for OF since he hasn't been out there since May 1. What are you seeing that I'm not?

[gehringer_2]

3 hours ago, chasfh said:

I think you’re right, my impression is that a player is projected as regressing some to the mean, so that, as a blunt example, the mean is 50, a great player did 90 in a season, his projection will be close to 70ext season. There’s a lot more to it of course, such as age progression, weighting multiple prior seasons, move to a new ballpark, etc., but I think that’s the general gist?

One of the things I wonder is whether a player projects less to the extreme at the other end, i.e., the mean is 50 and the players did a 10, is his projection close to 30, or is it a lot closer to around 10? The idea being that a player who is “bad”, in major league terms anyway, is probably “bad” because of the heavily right-skewed distribution of general baseball talent, with its long, thin upper tail. It’s a lot a lot easier to fall left down the tail than right up it.

You have to make a decision on how far back to carry the data and how much weight to give the older data. If I am projecting say - Jim Thome's 10th year HR total , it's going to look a lot like his 9th, which looks a lot like his 8th etc. You have a data history that support that this year should look like last year. You're going to project 30hr whether you take a long history weight or a short one. Contrast that to projecting McKinstry's '26 OPS. He had a a career outler season. In his case your decision on how to weight the most recent season vs his older ones will have big impact on the projection - how hard it drives back to his mean. It's a very tweakable knob

[Tiger337]

23 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Isn't it already 2 and 2? At the time they acquired Outman, In the infield I've got Tork, Torres, Kevin, and one of McKinstry, Colt, and Hao-Yu, leaving two. In the outfield I see Riley and two of Vierling, Wenceel, Outman, and Carp, leaving two on the bench. I don't even see Jones in the mix for OF since he hasn't been out there since May 1. What are you seeing that I'm not?

Lee doesn't count because he wasn't on the team yet when they acquired Outman which is what my post was about.  At that time, they had 5 infieders (Torkelson, Torres, McGonigle, Keith, McKinstry) and 6 outfielders (Greene, Carpenter, Vierling, Perez, Outman, Jones).   

[Sports_Freak]

45 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Trading Flaherty at the deadline could end up being a very significant trade, if Liranzo fulfills his promise and even if Sweeney comes back enough to be a solid backup piece, and both of those possibilites are still very much in the cards. Michael Lorenzen for Hao-Yu Lee may also end up being a very good trade. Not every trade has to be a mid-level prospect in exchange for a Hall of Famer for it to be a good trade.

I think you misunderstood. I wasn't bashing him for trading Flaherty or questioning the return, it was more about his inability to make any significant trades. You brought up Lorenzen....wasn't that in 2023? Really reaching to find any trades? And fans are speculating what he'll get on a Skubal trade? I dont think Harris is capable of pulling off a trade for one of baseballs best pitchers. But we'll see, I hope to be surprised by Boras allowing the Tigers to extend him.

[Sports_Freak]

17 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Lee doesn't count because he wasn't on the team yet when they acquired Outman which is what my post was about.  At that time, they had 5 infieders (Torkelson, Torres, McGonigle, Keith, McKinstry) and 6 outfielders (Greene, Carpenter, Vierling, Perez, Outman, Jones).   

Outfielders...switch McKinstry and Jones and totally correct. I dont think Hinch would use Jones in the OF but Zach does get some time out there. And TBH. I kinda like McKinstry in CF better than Vierling.

[gehringer_2]

6 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

 I dont think Harris is capable of pulling off a trade for one of baseballs best pitchers. But we'll see, I hope to be surprised by Boras allowing the Tigers to extend him.

Only the owners themselves know (and even amongst themselves they may not) if they are ready to take a long strike over a cap. But that knowledge, one way or the other seems like it has to inform whether any big deals are offered between now and the actual start of a '27 season.

[1984Echoes]

That actually wants me to trade Skubal at the deadline even more.

I'll take a premium package right now, rather than an uncertain signing (timing) of Skubal over the offseason (I know it will eventually get done.... I'm just sayin'...).

Prospects can play and develop. Which is what we are looking at anyways. It doesn't matter how much time is lost from MLB next season. We need to develop our prospects, and grow our high-level prospect pool.

IMO.