Tiger337 Posted July 31 Posted July 31 1 minute ago, SeattleMike said: Heavy sigh. The Tigers have been sellers at 9 of the last 10 deadlines. And a lot of good all that selling has done them. Selling means that you are a loser team that year. I thought the Tigers were beyond that at this point, but the fact that they are in a position to sell means they lost again. So, now they are reduced to making deals with winning organizations. This concept does not inspire confidence. I am no longer against selling this year, but I'd much rather they were in serious enough contention where they wouldn't have to sell. 1 Quote
SeattleMike Posted July 31 Posted July 31 3 minutes ago, AlaskanTigersFan said: This is completely different. They should be getting multiple CORE, great pieces. This is a dream scenario to be a seller. I think people are going to be shocked by the returns that come in this trade deadline..... I honestly believe this trade deadline will launch the Tigers into a decade of winning. As long as Harris an Greenburg don't totally crap the bed here..... I admire your enthusiasm. But historically these deals rarely return much. Quote
AlaskanTigersFan Posted July 31 Posted July 31 2 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: I would love if the Braves overpaid for Mize. Leaving the Brewers and Dodgers to fight over Skubal... I would love to get REALLY creative though and talk them into also taking Valdez... and we could even take injured Spencer Strider to match up salaries/ contract (not exactly... but just enough to give them some relief for taking on Valdez). This is my... ... yes, a bit of a dreamworld. Who do we get for Mize? we're not getting Cam Caminiti... or if we DO get him, I'll be wildly shocked... JR Ritchie plus...? Ritchie could slot into the starting rotation after he gets "Fetterized"; right now he's in AAA struggling a bit with control after doing the same in MLB with the Braves... And when Strider gets off the IL... I'm converting him to closer in order to try and keep him off the injured list. Just my 2 cents. I could see them doing well here. Especially if they take on a guy that's even injured. I've heard the names AJ Smith-Shawver, Hurston Waldrep, Ritchie and even Tate Southisene being floated. Any of those four would be a fantastic return for Mize. Especially if they get a low A flyer as well with high upside........ Quote
1984Echoes Posted July 31 Posted July 31 1 minute ago, Tiger337 said: Selling means that you are a loser team that year. I thought the Tigers were beyond that at this point, but the fact that they are in a position to sell means they lost again. So, now they are reduced to making deals with winning organizations. This concept does not inspire confidence. I am no longer against selling this year, but I'd much rather they were in serious enough contention where they wouldn't have to sell. In other words... A year similar to 2008. Where we were highly competitive the two years prior but then took a step backwards. This backwards step doesn't bother me... it happens sometimes... I'm just looking forward to Scott Harris retooling this team for the next decade of annual Pennant/ World Series chases... THIS is the moment. RIGHT NOW. IMO. Quote
Tiger337 Posted July 31 Posted July 31 (edited) 5 minutes ago, SeattleMike said: I admire your enthusiasm. But historically these deals rarely return much. Right, If they get one impact player out of this deadline, I would consider it a success. Winning organizatons know their players better than anyone and they rarely trade their best prospects. I really doubt this is going to launch a decade of success. A decade of success comes from consistent drafting and development and smart trades/signings. It doesn't come from one magical trade deadline. Edited July 31 by Tiger337 Quote
AlaskanTigersFan Posted July 31 Posted July 31 4 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Selling means that you are a loser team that year. I thought the Tigers were beyond that at this point, but the fact that they are in a position to sell means they lost again. So, now they are reduced to making deals with winning organizations. This concept does not inspire confidence. I am no longer against selling this year, but I'd much rather they were in serious enough contention where they wouldn't have to sell. I think I'm the only one on this board that's said this from the very beginning. They should have done a fire sale last year or even the year before . (I claimed they should of traded Skubal LAST off season and have been by far the most vocal about that idea and and everyone said I was crazy AF.....). They tried to cheat a rebuild just like every other Detroit sports team has done. I think everyone will be pleasantly surprised by the return and this will be a good thing for the Tigers to do. (Now I'm just praying they actually do it). Quote
SeattleMike Posted July 31 Posted July 31 2 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: In other words... A year similar to 2008. Where we were highly competitive the two years prior but then took a step backwards. This backwards step doesn't bother me... it happens sometimes... I'm just looking forward to Scott Harris retooling this team for the next decade of annual Pennant/ World Series chases... THIS is the moment. RIGHT NOW. IMO. I agree about the 2008 comparison. This year reminds me of that season. I'm not down on the future just annoyed that they have decided to completely punt on this season. Quote
AlaskanTigersFan Posted July 31 Posted July 31 2 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Right, If they get one impact player out of this deadline, I would consider it a success. Winning organizatons know their players better than anyone and they rarely trade their best prospects. I really doubt this is going to launch a decade of success. If they don't get three to four impact players back this deadline, Harris and Greenburg should be fired at 6:01 pm EST on Monday. Quote
NorthWoods Posted July 31 Posted July 31 2 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Right, If they get one impact player out of this deadline, I would consider it a success. Winning organizatons know their players better than anyone and they rarely trade their best prospects. I really doubt this is going to launch a decade of success. More likely the Tigers prospects - McG, Clark, Melton, Montero, Anderson, Ranier, Lee launch the decade of success with what we acquire at this deadline in a supporting role. The Lee acquisition gives me hope that Harris can get a prospect that pans out and hopefully if we can get 10-12 lottery tickets for the 4 most mentioned trade candidates - Skubal, Mize, Torres, Jansen - that 1 or 2 of them work out for us. Quote
Tiger337 Posted July 31 Posted July 31 5 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: In other words... A year similar to 2008. Where we were highly competitive the two years prior but then took a step backwards. This backwards step doesn't bother me... it happens sometimes... I'm just looking forward to Scott Harris retooling this team for the next decade of annual Pennant/ World Series chases... THIS is the moment. RIGHT NOW. IMO. But you think every moment is the moment! Not a bad attitude to have, but not really realistic. Quote
1984Echoes Posted July 31 Posted July 31 4 minutes ago, AlaskanTigersFan said: I could see them doing well here. Especially if they take on a guy that's even injured. I've heard the names AJ Smith-Shawver, Hurston Waldrep, Ritchie and even Tate Southisene being floated. Any of those four would be a fantastic return for Mize. Especially if they get a low A flyer as well with high upside........ I'm only interested in Ritchie out of those names. The first pure prospect (I'm guessing we're getting middle-30 prospect aside from Ritchie... not a top 10...) I'm looking at is Ethan Bagwell... 6'4" Righty that doesn't K a lot of batters (8.6/ 9 in High-A but has great control (1.3 BB's/9 in High-A). And keeps runners off the bases with a 0.99 WHIP. Controls the strike zone, Harris special... 1 Quote
NorthWoods Posted July 31 Posted July 31 2 minutes ago, SeattleMike said: I agree about the 2008 comparison. This year reminds me of that season. I'm not down on the future just annoyed that they have decided to completely punt on this season. They haven't punted yet. We'll see if it's just Skubal/Torres or a deeper sell off. The Mize pull back might only be precautionary and not a sign a deal is imminent. Quote
SeattleMike Posted July 31 Posted July 31 2 minutes ago, AlaskanTigersFan said: I think I'm the only one on this board that's said this from the very beginning. They should have done a fire sale last year or even the year before . (I claimed they should of traded Skubal LAST off season and have been by far the most vocal about that idea and and everyone said I was crazy AF.....). They tried to cheat a rebuild just like every other Detroit sports team has done. I think everyone will be pleasantly surprised by the return and this will be a good thing for the Tigers to do. (Now I'm just praying they actually do it). The entire roster entering this season was in their prime, except McGonigle on one end and Baez on the other, and you wanted them to trade their best player? If not this year then when? You can't just keeping chasing after some mythical dynasty. 2 1 Quote
lordstanley Posted July 31 Posted July 31 3 minutes ago, AlaskanTigersFan said: I think I'm the only one on this board that's said this from the very beginning. They should have done a fire sale last year or even the year before . (I claimed they should of traded Skubal LAST off season and have been by far the most vocal about that idea and and everyone said I was crazy AF.....). Last year on this date the Tigers had a 9 game lead in the division, were tied with Toronto with the best record in the American League, a game behind Milwaukee for the best record in MLB, and were 0.5 game ahead of the eventual WS champion Dodgers. That would have been the most bizarrely-timed fire sale in the history of baseball. Quote
Tiger337 Posted July 31 Posted July 31 3 minutes ago, AlaskanTigersFan said: I think I'm the only one on this board that's said this from the very beginning. They should have done a fire sale last year or even the year before . (I claimed they should of traded Skubal LAST off season and have been by far the most vocal about that idea and and everyone said I was crazy AF.....). They tried to cheat a rebuild just like every other Detroit sports team has done. I think everyone will be pleasantly surprised by the return and this will be a good thing for the Tigers to do. (Now I'm just praying they actually do it). I think they made the right move in keeping Skubal. They were good enough to win but had a bad season. Quote
Hongbit Posted July 31 Posted July 31 2 minutes ago, NorthWoods said: More likely the Tigers prospects - McG, Clark, Melton, Montero, Anderson, Ranier, Lee launch the decade of success with what we acquire at this deadline in a supporting role. The Lee acquisition gives me hope that Harris can get a prospect that pans out and hopefully if we can get 10-12 lottery tickets for the 4 most mentioned trade candidates - Skubal, Mize, Torres, Jansen - that 1 or 2 of them work out for us. I love what Lee has done so far but the sample size is so tiny that I can’t put him in as part of the future core quite yet. Quote
1984Echoes Posted July 31 Posted July 31 3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: But you think every moment is the moment! ... You don't think this is a key moment in Detroit Tigers future... when Harris is selling off several pending FA's and hopefully getting good returns/ retooling for the future? This is NOT a key moment? I'm perplexed by your thinking like this... Quote
RedRamage Posted July 31 Posted July 31 Just now, Tiger337 said: I think they made the right move in keeping Skubal. They were good enough to win but had a bad season. I wanted them to trade Skubal before the season started because I figured the return would be much better if the buying team would get a year of Skubal instead of two months. However, after they signed Framber I was willing to keep him and see what they could do this season. A hopefully decent team with strong pitching in a weak ALCentral... there was potential there. But, as you said they had a bad season. In hindsight they should have traded, but that's hindsight. Quote
AlaskanTigersFan Posted July 31 Posted July 31 1 minute ago, SeattleMike said: The entire roster entering this season was in their prime, except McGonigle on one end and Baez on the other, and you wanted them to trade their best player? If not this year then when? You can't just keeping chasing after some mythical dynasty. I have said, so many times, the Tigers have basically three first division regulars in Dingler, McGonigle and maybe Greene. THe rest of the lineup is not playoff worthy (yet). Keith has the chance and Tork if he can figure stuff out but neither are there yet. And Carpenter isn't there yet. So you have 33% of your lineup that would be considered 1st division. The strength has always been the rotation. But we NEED more. You telling me running out Wenceel Perez and Javy Baez and Zach McKinstry is going to be World Series caliber? Bro..... The writings been on the wall for years that this team needs to influx talent. Now having said that, We do have a great core to build around. The rotation is strong with Jobe, Montero, Madden, Melton, Valdez and some others. Adding Clark and Rainer to the lineup starts making it look legit. Add in a top 10 prospect OF (like Mike Sirota from LAD) and another top 50 like Zhir Hope to the lineup and now all of a sudden you have 7 to 8 hitters deep (if they all hit like they're supposed to). Sure some of them can flame out. But the QUALITY of the prospect is night and day difference. Anyone who tells you they'd rather have Wenceel Perez in RF for you over Zyhir Hope or Mike Sirota should have their head examined. This team can be good. And they can be good NEXT YEAR! But they have tried to shortcut, it came back bit them in the ass and now they are trying again. If they do the next few days right, they can set this franchise up to win for the next decade (which they really could of done two years ago). 1 Quote
Tiger337 Posted July 31 Posted July 31 5 minutes ago, NorthWoods said: More likely the Tigers prospects - McG, Clark, Melton, Montero, Anderson, Ranier, Lee launch the decade of success with what we acquire at this deadline in a supporting role. The Lee acquisition gives me hope that Harris can get a prospect that pans out and hopefully if we can get 10-12 lottery tickets for the 4 most mentioned trade candidates - Skubal, Mize, Torres, Jansen - that 1 or 2 of them work out for us. Yes, I am not down on their future at all. I just don't think it's realistic to think that this deadline is going to create some magical dynasty. I just see it as an opportunity to re-tool after a disappointing seaon. And I share your view that, with creative deadline moves, they might still be able to contend somewhat this year while improving their future. Quote
KL2 Posted July 31 Posted July 31 24 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: I would love if the Braves overpaid for Mize. Leaving the Brewers and Dodgers to fight over Skubal... I would love to get REALLY creative though and talk them into also taking Valdez... and we could even take injured Spencer Strider to match up salaries/ contract (not exactly... but just enough to give them some relief for taking on Valdez). This is my... ... yes, a bit of a dreamworld. Who do we get for Mize? we're not getting Cam Caminiti... or if we DO get him, I'll be wildly shocked... JR Ritchie plus...? Ritchie could slot into the starting rotation after he gets "Fetterized"; right now he's in AAA struggling a bit with control after doing the same in MLB with the Braves... And when Strider gets off the IL... I'm converting him to closer in order to try and keep him off the injured list. Just my 2 cents. MLB deals rarely get that complicated Quote
chasfh Posted July 31 Posted July 31 (edited) Pulling Mize doesn't necessarily mean they are going to trade him tonight—they simply don't want him out there at any time in the next three days pulling a groin muscle. If a trade is imminent, it's obviously prudent to pull him tonight. If no trade is imminent, I would think signaling this fear of injury might even suppress his market and increase the chances he stays. Edited July 31 by chasfh 2 Quote
Tiger337 Posted July 31 Posted July 31 5 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: You don't think this is a key moment in Detroit Tigers future... when Harris is selling off several pending FA's and hopefully getting good returns/ retooling for the future? This is NOT a key moment? I'm perplexed by your thinking like this... I think I would be happy if they ended up with one impact player out of this. That is important, but I wouldn't consider it the key moment. I'd be a lot happier if they had the season I expected them to have. Quote
monkeytargets39 Posted July 31 Posted July 31 If Skubal/Mize/Torres are dealt, I expect 2 higher level prospects back at minimum. But truly, the key to making this a better team for next year is taking an Ozempic shot to this roster and cutting all the visceral fat out of the 40-man roster and then replacing them with players that have some type of legitimate mlb skill set and prospects that are rule V eligible. No one from the group of: Vierling, McKinstry, Perez, Outman, Cruz, Verlander, Flaherty, Jansen, Anderson, Gipson-Long, Vanasco, B. Smith, Waguespack, Workman and Sweeney should be on the 40-man going into next spring. You could probably add several more like Brieske, Diaz, Granillo, Vest, etc. If we are going to sell off our big three upcoming free agents and call up Clark—then it’s also going to be time to call up Anderson also and then have some wiggle room to add the next crop of guys onto the 40-man for next spring (Briceno, Peck, Callahan, etc.) Quote
Motor City Sonics Posted July 31 Posted July 31 Just a hunch, but Mize is headed the Rays They'll probably fleece us again. Quote
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