08/16/2026 1:40p EDT Chicago White Sox vs Detroit Tigers

[SeattleMike]

1 minute ago, monkeytargets39 said:

That just seemed like a miserably unlucky series, but the Sox are definitely the better team.

Take Greene out of the lineup, subtract Skubal and Mize, and, yes, the White Sox are a better team. Today would have been Skubal on the mound. Handcuffing the 2026 team was a choice, one they may still overcome but I'm still kind of sore about the trades. 

[IdahoBert]

41 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

This game, win or lose, should serve as the reminder for why we dealt Skubal and Mize.  While this team should be and mostly is very good, they can’t overcome a tragic bullpen.

Can’t hold the lead, can’t throw strikes …

[chasfh]

3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Did you predict a sweep?

 

[Adullin]

Wow just embarrassing 

[SeattleMike]

On the plus side, the Tigers played a series in mid August with first place in the Division on the line. I wasn't expecting that on June 1. Firmly believe they would play better once the rotation got healthy and a few other guys returned, but I thought 16 games under would be too much to make any playoff noise. From here, just happy to watch baseball where the outcomes matter. 

Edited Sunday at 08:51 PM by SeattleMike

[Motor City Sonics]

Welp, this weekend sucked.   

[RatkoVarda]

1 hour ago, Tenacious D said:

This game, win or lose, should serve as the reminder for why we dealt Skubal and Mize.  While this team should be and mostly is very good, they can’t overcome a tragic bullpen.

but

they made the choice to not improve the bullpen.

they made the choice to look at 6 rookies to improve the offense.

this is the result.

[IdahoBert]

I wish improving the bullpen were as easy as buying a really good used car that was in a bad accident. 

[IdahoBert]

I don’t know how embarrassing this really is. The White Sox are a vastly improved team and from what I can tell our club was beat fair and square. They’re definitely better than when we played them last.

I’m impressed that they have middle relievers throwing 100 mph pitches. They have a lot of power in their lineup too and they didn’t seem to have a problem reaching the fences in this ballpark.

[Tiger337]

30 minutes ago, IdahoBert said:

I wish improving the bullpen were as easy as buying a really good used car that was in a bad accident. 

I think they already have that.  

[monkeytargets39]

2 hours ago, SeattleMike said:

Take Greene out of the lineup, subtract Skubal and Mize, and, yes, the White Sox are a better team. Today would have been Skubal on the mound. Handcuffing the 2026 team was a choice, one they may still overcome but I'm still kind of sore about the trades. 

Sure, but…

there’s not much we can do with Greene being hurt.  At least they are running guys like Clark, Callahan, Malgeri, etc. out there who have hit their way onto the team instead of Wenceel and Jahmai Jones.

 

And our starter left the game with the lead.  So even if Skubal was pitching, we still have to get the final 9-12 outs via the bullpen.  
 

The bullpen is the main reason this team is only really a fringe playoff contender.  

[monkeytargets39]

1 hour ago, RatkoVarda said:

but

they made the choice to not improve the bullpen.

they made the choice to look at 6 rookies to improve the offense.

this is the result.

Would adding 1-2 relievers at the deadline have made a difference when we can’t really truly rely on any of them to be shutdown relievers?  Holton and Waguespack have been the most consistent and even they are more pitch to contact types than guys who overpower you.  We aren’t going to get to the next level until we have 3-4 guys who can come in and be consistently dominant as opposed to roulette wheel spins on what we are going to get.

[IdahoBert]

11 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I think they already have that.  

Exactly. I’m not interested in getting rid of these young bulldogs in the minor league system so we can get still more relievers who are, let’s face it, “failed starters“ that are at best “mercurial.“ It’s not like they grow on trees. Do this in the off-season through free agency or grow your own at home.

I love seeing these young guys come up. It’s dramatic - a true spectacle. I’m more interested in that than making it as far as the ALCS then failing. I don’t think this is a World Series bound team. I would rather enjoy it for what it is rather than what it’s not and let the future take care of itself. 

[SeattleMike]

12 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said:

Would adding 1-2 relievers at the deadline have made a difference when we can’t really truly rely on any of them to be shutdown relievers?  Holton and Waguespack have been the most consistent and even they are more pitch to contact types than guys who overpower you.  We aren’t going to get to the next level until we have 3-4 guys who can come in and be consistently dominant as opposed to roulette wheel spins on what we are going to get.

Does anyone really have 3-4 guys who are consistently dominant? I'd be happy with a couple of guys like this. 

[monkeytargets39]

26 minutes ago, SeattleMike said:

Does anyone really have 3-4 guys who are consistently dominant? I'd be happy with a couple of guys like this. 

I think you could argue the Yankees, Dodgers and Padres do.  And most other true contending teams have two guys who are in the high-20/low-30% strikeout rates with under 10% walk rates.  
 

Anderson is our only reliever (who is now a starter…) that had at or above a 10 k/9 rate but less than a 3.5 bb/9 rate.  So our relievers that can strike guys out are wild, and our guys who aren’t as wild can’t strike guys out.

 

I think you could make a very real argument that Ty Madden has been our best/most consistent reliever.  That’s a problem because he’s an innings eater reliever and not really used as a leverage guy.  
 

I don’t know that there’s an easy fix besides really starting to develop internal guys to be leverage relievers rather than just converting failed starters into relievers.

Edited Sunday at 11:45 PM by monkeytargets39

[papalawrence]

Tigers now 5.5 and 1 games out. Mize pitched a gem today and beat Cleveland. Skubal pitched well but LAD lost

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, IdahoBert said:

I don’t think this is a World Series bound team. I would rather enjoy it for what it is rather than what it’s not and let the future take care of itself. 

there just isn't enough pitching there. Everything has to keep to breaking perfectly for them to stay in it and this series was a argument that's not going to happen.  😥

[SeattleMike]

4 hours ago, Tigermojo said:

I hate Vargas.

In 1600 PAs Vargas has a lifetime OPS of 96, and that includes this year's 130. He's 26. Will be Interesting to watch him going forward. 

[casimir]

Well this series was a kick to the nether region.

Progression isn’t always linear.  Gotta get back up, dust off, and move on to Pittsburgh.

[gehringer_2]

5 hours ago, SeattleMike said:

Take Greene out of the lineup, subtract Skubal and Mize, and, yes, the White Sox are a better team. Today would have been Skubal on the mound. Handcuffing the 2026 team was a choice, one they may still overcome but I'm still kind of sore about the trades. 

Skubal I understand completely, but moving Mize makes me wonder. It can't be because they didn't think they could sign him, they never even talked to him to find out. So clearly there is subtext there that we simply do not know and it's impossible to judge whether moving was him was 'necessary' or whether there are reasons to believe the return with so little immediate use was all that could be gained.. 

[chasfh]

14 hours ago, SeattleMike said:

On the plus side, the Tigers played a series in mid August with first place in the Division on the line. I wasn't expecting that on June 1. Firmly believe they would play better once the rotation got healthy and a few other guys returned, but I thought 16 games under would be too much to make any playoff noise. From here, just happy to watch baseball where the outcomes matter. 

We’re not there yet, of course, but at whatever point we are at peak Tigers, we will also have to have enough depth to withstand injuries to a couple major players and still win. That needs to be somewhere on the blueprint as well.

[chasfh]

13 hours ago, IdahoBert said:

I wish improving the bullpen were as easy as buying a really good used car that was in a bad accident. 

I wish “improving the bullpen” were also as easy as signing a guy who’s had success in bullpens before.

[Tiger337]

12 hours ago, monkeytargets39 said:

I think you could argue the Yankees, Dodgers and Padres do.  And most other true contending teams have two guys who are in the high-20/low-30% strikeout rates with under 10% walk rates.  
 

Anderson is our only reliever (who is now a starter…) that had at or above a 10 k/9 rate but less than a 3.5 bb/9 rate.  So our relievers that can strike guys out are wild, and our guys who aren’t as wild can’t strike guys out.

 

I think you could make a very real argument that Ty Madden has been our best/most consistent reliever.  That’s a problem because he’s an innings eater reliever and not really used as a leverage guy.  
 

I don’t know that there’s an easy fix besides really starting to develop internal guys to be leverage relievers rather than just converting failed starters into relievers.

Most relievers are failed starters though.  They are converted to relieves at different stages of development, but they start out as starters.  The Tigers seemed to be really good at identifying relievers for a couple of years.  Then, all of the sudden, they weren't.  I don't know whether there is a reason for that or whether it's luck.  

[Shelton]

9 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

Skubal I understand completely, but moving Mize makes me wonder. It can't be because they didn't think they could sign him, they never even talked to him to find out. So clearly there is subtext there that we simply do not know and it's impossible to judge whether moving was him was 'necessary' or whether there are reasons to believe the return with so little immediate use was all that could be gained.. 

I don’t think the ability to re-sign a player once they enter free agency is much of a factor at all for modern front offices. So I agree that the decision to trade Mize had little to do with their ability to do so. 
 

I think it was just a standard value proposition. To the extent we might choose to reverse this trade today (maybe less so after the sweep, but in general when things looked even better on Friday morning) doesn’t really matter when considering the decision being made two weeks ago. 
 

I think in the case of Mize, they valued the prospect they got back substantially higher than the value of a comp pick in the next draft. 
 

And I think another big part of it is that the value of Casey Mize over two months relative to his replacement isn’t significant. 
 

I think the tigers are 3-3 in games started from the Skubal and Mize rotation spots since Skubal’s final start. 

[chasfh]

13 hours ago, monkeytargets39 said:

Sure, but…

there’s not much we can do with Greene being hurt.  At least they are running guys like Clark, Callahan, Malgeri, etc. out there who have hit their way onto the team instead of Wenceel and Jahmai Jones.

 

And our starter left the game with the lead.  So even if Skubal was pitching, we still have to get the final 9-12 outs via the bullpen.  
 

The bullpen is the main reason this team is only really a fringe playoff contender.  

“The bullpen is above average” and “the bullpen is the main reason this team is only really a fringe playoff contender” can both be true at the same time.