oblong Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 27 minutes ago, GoBlue23 said: Well this is going to trigger the piss out of Trump and his minions. Oh wow, he is F'ing pissed about the claim he didn't remember when Beau died. The media is so damn annoying trying to shout over each other. They should really have set this up to call on people one at a time. Oh great, he just said Mexico instead of Egypt. Which could be related to a stutter and verbal tic. Not a memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 This would seem to make sense. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Amazing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Amazing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 5 hours ago, GoBlue23 said: “Mr. Biden would likely present himself to a jury, as he did during our interview of him, as a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory,” they wrote, adding that Biden “is someone for whom many jurors will want to identify reasonable doubt.” In what world are these kind of opinions and speculation appropriate for a report like this? I haven't read it and regardless of how it reads I'm sure people will be taking it out of context, but if it's a special investigator giving a report to a prosecutor, I'd absolutely expect this. Once a prosecutor decides to charge someone, it's no longer about right or wrong, it's about winning. They aren't going to try a case that they don't think they can win, even if they feel they have facts on their side. That would definitely come into a discussion about advising on a decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 20 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Amazing To be fair, Trump taking a whole hour to say something stupid is actually pretty good him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 so the media is in a fluster because... a Republican said bad stuff about Biden? What a f'ing joke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 1 hour ago, ewsieg said: I haven't read it and regardless of how it reads I'm sure people will be taking it out of context, but if it's a special investigator giving a report to a prosecutor, I'd absolutely expect this. Once a prosecutor decides to charge someone, it's no longer about right or wrong, it's about winning. They aren't going to try a case that they don't think they can win, even if they feel they have facts on their side. That would definitely come into a discussion about advising on a decision. sorry your expectation is wrong. If they don't charge they're supposed to STFU. He didn't charge. He shoulda STFU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 9 hours ago, pfife said: sorry your expectation is wrong. If they don't charge they're supposed to STFU. He didn't charge. He shoulda STFU https://abcnews.go.com/US/ag-special-counsel-finished-probe-bidens-handling-classified/story?id=107004130#:~:text=Garland said that Hur had,Counsel's report public as possible.” Based on this, it appears Garland expected to publicly release it and i've heard no push back from anyone on this report not coming from the Justice Department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Report on the Investigation Into Unauthorized Removal, Retention, and Disclosure of Classified Documents Discovered at Locatinos Including the Penn Biden Center and the Delaware Private Residence of President Joseph R. Biden, Jr. (justice.gov) I guess the blame should be on Biden for disclosing this, maybe he forgot to tell Garland it shouldn't be released. If you were all in on Trump should be brought up on charges (and should be found guilty) for the Mar-a-lago documents case, I don't see how you don't think Biden should be in the same boat here. This might be the first case that Biden is worse than Trump here. The facts we now know is that Trump had documents he knew about and kept. We have no evidence he sold secrets, but he apparently bragged about having them for clout. Biden had documents he knew about and kept. The difference for Biden is he wanted them to make money off of them to help him document his book with his ghostwriter. This isn't changing my vote, i'm still voting for any D on the ballot....but please, you folks claim you're the adults in the room, you can't find someone else in your party for me to vote for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 4 minutes ago, ewsieg said: ... This isn't changing my vote, i'm still voting for any D on the ballot....but please, you folks claim you're the adults in the room, you can't find someone else in your party for me to vote for? Would love to do that. There are some interesting potential candidates out there. But it's just not going to happen. We all know that. There are worse things out there than Great Grandpa Biden bringing us from the period of violent fascism and grotesque narcissism hopefully back to a period of Adults in the Room again (likelihood we get back to that...? 2%? Cat's outta the bag with rampant social media ills so... it just seems so hard to get back there...). I mean, Trump is trying to lead this country into being Venezuela or North Korea (what he REALLY wants). Venezuela and North Korea are DEFINITELY worse than 8 years of Great Grandpa Biden. You could even say that's a bit creepy... but that's STILL not as bad... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 48 minutes ago, ewsieg said: This isn't changing my vote, i'm still voting for any D on the ballot....but please, you folks claim you're the adults in the room, you can't find someone else in your party for me to vote for? In the abstract, there are quite a few decent candidates that could run on the D side. Whitmer and Shapiro from PA are the cream of the crop if you ask me. It's the "how do you get there from here" question that kinda derails the whole thought exercise. The reality is that if you do not want Biden to run, you have to come to terms with Kamala Harris being the nominee. And unsurprisingly, many of the same people (at least in media) who have complained about Biden running the most (Bill Kristol, Nate Silver, others come to mind), would ***** and moan about her being the nominee as well. I'm not saying he should run at this point, I've been concerned about his age and running for reelection for a while.... but lets not pretend that they could easily and bloodlessly meander their way to Candidate Whitmer.... that's a fairy tale. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, ewsieg said: This isn't changing my vote, i'm still voting for any D on the ballot....but please, you folks claim you're the adults in the room, you can't find someone else in your party for me to vote for? I always thought Biden was a weak candidate. The only reason he won in 2020 was because Trump was a joke and his incompetence was readily evident due to Covid. He is a very unpopular President and the Democrats are making a huge mistake letting him run uncontested. Edited February 9 by Tiger337 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 53 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: I mean, Trump is trying to lead this country into being Venezuela or North Korea (what he REALLY wants). Venezuela and North Korea are DEFINITELY worse than 8 years of Great Grandpa Biden. He is not trying to make us into North Korea. He is trying to win because he's an immature psychopath who has to win. But yes he is way more dangerous than Biden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 1 hour ago, ewsieg said: The facts we now know is that Trump had documents he knew about and kept. We have no evidence he sold secrets, but he apparently bragged about having them for clout. Biden had documents he knew about and kept. The difference for Biden is he wanted them to make money off of them to help him document his book with his ghostwriter. LOL, I don't know what Biden was going to do with the documents, but come on, you know Trump was going to make or had already made money off them. That's his whole life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 20 minutes ago, mtutiger said: It's the "how do you get there from here" question that kinda derails the whole thought exercise. The reality is that if you do not want Biden to run, you have to come to terms with Kamala Harris being the nominee. And unsurprisingly, many of the same people (at least in media) who have complained about Biden running the most (Bill Kristol, Nate Silver, others come to mind), would ***** and moan about her being the nominee as well. I'm not saying he should run at this point, I've been concerned about his age and running for reelection for a while.... but lets not pretend that they could easily and bloodlessly meander their way to Candidate Whitmer.... that's a fairy tale. I'd really like to see someone address this. My biggest problem whenever this stuff comes up is that we treat it like fantasy baseball and just say, "oh, i'll drop Biden from my team and add Whitmer", and it's really not at all that straightforward. Whatever you may believe on whether he should or shouldn't run again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 3 minutes ago, mtutiger said: I'd really like to see someone address this. My biggest problem whenever this stuff comes up is that we treat it like fantasy baseball and just say, "oh, i'll drop Biden from my team and add Whitmer", and it's really not at all that straightforward. Whatever you may believe on whether he should or shouldn't run again. You sound like a bureaucrat! Obama came out of nowhere to become President. You don't always have to stick with a ****ty choice who is just there because it's his or her turn. Trump came out of nowhere too and that didn't turn out well, but the point is you don't have to go with cookie cutter choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: You sound like a bureaucrat! Obama came out of nowhere to become President. You don't always have to stick with a ****ty choice who is just there because it's his or her turn. Trump came out of nowhere too and that didn't turn out well, but the point is you don't have to go with cookie cutter choice. If Biden were to drop out today, Kamala Harris would be the nominee. Because the most important demographic in the party (ie. AA voters) would be firmly in her camp. Just as it was these same voters (along with those in the Iowa Caucus) who made it so for Obama. Nobody wants to admit this, but it's true. And, for whatever reason, if he were to drop out today and the party, to the extent that they could even control who ends up the nominee to begin with, were to force her to the side to run Whitmer or others, people either do not understand or are engaging in magical thinking about the **** show that would ensue. To the extent that incumbency advantage exists, that evaporates, and you'd likely ignite a civil war in the party. Edited February 9 by mtutiger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben9753 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 1 minute ago, Tiger337 said: You sound like a bureaucrat! Obama came out of nowhere to become President. You don't always have to stick with a ****ty choice who is just there because it's his or her turn. Trump came out of nowhere too and that didn't turn out well, but the point is you don't have to go with cookie cutter choice. To add to this, Hillary ran because "it was her turn". That turned out well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 2 minutes ago, ben9753 said: To add to this, Hillary ran because "it was her turn". That turned out well. I don't have a particular proclivity toward Harris, but it gets really frustrating to see people act like there's absolutely no cost to going around her status as incumbent VP in this current situation we find ourselves in. Frankly, it's delusional 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 1 minute ago, mtutiger said: If Biden were to drop out, Kamala Harris would be the nominee. Because the most important demographic in the party (ie. AA voters) would be firmly in her camp. Just as it was these same voters (along with those in the Iowa Caucus) who made it so for Obama. Nobody wants to admit this, but it's true. And, for whatever reason, if he were to drop out today and the party, to the extent that they could even control who ends up the nominee to begin with, were to run Whitmer instead of Harris, people do not understand or are engaging in magical thinking about the **** show that would ensue. If Harris became the leading candidate, other candidates would be able to jump in and she'd be a lot easier to beat than an incumbent President. I refuse to believe that it just has to be the way it is. That is is the whole problem with the Democrat bureaucracy in a nutshell. Being a President is a really important job. At least find one that people like! That's a good place to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 32 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: He is not trying to make us into North Korea. He is trying to win because he's an immature psychopath who has to win. But yes he is way more dangerous than Biden. No, he wants North Korea. He wants ALL the money to go to him. He would love to kill whoever he wants to. He LOVES Kim Jong Un's setup in NK. Absolute power. Absolute control over all of the money. Maduro has that in Venezuela too. Don't kid yourself. That is EXACTLY what Trump wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 3 minutes ago, mtutiger said: I don't have a particular proclivity toward Harris, but it gets really frustrating to see people act like there's absolutely no cost to going around her status as incumbent VP in this current situation we find ourselves in. Frankly, it's delusional This sounds like you arguing that the Tigers can never make a big trade or sign a free agent. 😀It just can't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Just now, Tiger337 said: If Harris became the leading candidate, other candidates would be able to jump in and she'd be a lot easier to beat than an incumbent President. Are you sure other candidates would jump in if Biden dropped out? Do you think Josh Shapiro, Gretchen Whitmer, JB Pritzker, etc. are going to want to burn political capital fighting out a bloody primary with an incumbent VP who would likely be endorsed by Biden and would have the support of the most important demographic in the party? And in all likelihood lose? 3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: That is is the whole problem with the Democrat bureaucracy in a nutshell. It's not the party, it's the voters and it's the incentives for alternative candidates. You don't have to like it, I'm just engaging in reality here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Just now, 1984Echoes said: No, he wants North Korea. He wants ALL the money to go to him. He would love to kill whoever he wants to. He LOVES Kim Jong Un's setup in NK. Absolute power. Absolute control over all of the money. Maduro has that in Venezuela too. Don't kid yourself. That is EXACTLY what Trump wants. No doubt he wants money. That's his whole life, but if Trump were a killer there would be all kinds of rumors about how he had people killed as a disorganized crime boss. And there really isn't anything out there like that. You are thinking the worst possible scenario because you hate him and believe me I know how easy that is to do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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