07/23/2022 6:10 EDT Minnesota Twins at Detroit Tigers

[RaceDog]

Are these really professional baseball players?

[Dtrain72]

10 minutes ago, RaceDog said:

Are these really professional baseball players?

 

[cswood]

1 minute ago, Dtrain72 said:

 

the rebuild is over

[romad1]

Poor Dan Dickerson

[romad1]

also, VPNs work.  I used mine to watch the game on my laptop here in Western Michigan.   I would need to be creative to use that with the apple tv though.

[raind]

1 hour ago, RaceDog said:

Are these really professional baseball players?

Yep! Just not as good as the other ones...lol

[casimir]

So Candelario and Baddoo combined to give up 2 extra runs in the 7th.  Barnhart’s drop at home (pretty obvious he wasn’t anticipating a throw coming his way) allowed that run, plus 2 more scored after that.  Simply inexcusable poor defense.

[Tigermojo]

Embarrassing but pretty much the 2022 Tigers on display. First game back, 7-2 solid performance gets the win. Next two games, complete stinkers.

[casimir]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

He's gonna get all the rope he needs, but I dont know of a compelling that Jeimer should be tendered at this point

Well, there’s nobody in the pipeline to take his place.  We can talk about Kreidler, but I think he needs to show more.  His Toledo numbers last seem a little suspect.  He probably needs to show some more on base ability at AAA.  I realize that sounds silly when looking at his .370 OBP at AAA, but that’s inflated by his torrid 2021.

Then a quick glance at upcoming free agents show that there’s not much to get excited about there.  Oh, sure, Correa could opt out.  I just don’t think breaking the bank for a guy that’s oft injured makes sense.

Factor those aspects, and I think we will see Candelario through next season.

[Tenacious D]

2 minutes ago, casimir said:

Well, there’s nobody in the pipeline to take his place.  We can talk about Kreidler, but I think he needs to show more.  His Toledo numbers last seem a little suspect.  He probably needs to show some more on base ability at AAA.  I realize that sounds silly when looking at his .370 OBP at AAA, but that’s inflated by his torrid 2021.

Then a quick glance at upcoming free agents show that there’s not much to get excited about there.  Oh, sure, Correa could opt out.  I just don’t think breaking the bank for a guy that’s oft injured makes sense.

Factor those aspects, and I think we will see Candelario through next season.

I don’t agree that Jeimer is on the squad next season.  I think if Kreidler stays healthy, he gets called up to play 3B in September.  They’ll non-tender Candelario, IMO

[mtutiger]

4 minutes ago, casimir said:

Well, there’s nobody in the pipeline to take his place.  We can talk about Kreidler, but I think he needs to show more.  His Toledo numbers last seem a little suspect.  He probably needs to show some more on base ability at AAA.  I realize that sounds silly when looking at his .370 OBP at AAA, but that’s inflated by his torrid 2021.

Then a quick glance at upcoming free agents show that there’s not much to get excited about there.  Oh, sure, Correa could opt out.  I just don’t think breaking the bank for a guy that’s oft injured makes sense.

Factor those aspects, and I think we will see Candelario through next season.

I get it. It says a lot about where they are at the moment.

[Tenacious D]

Doesn’t help us for this season, but I suspect Keith will move to 3B at Erie next year.  With Jung and Graham now in the pipeline, along with Wenceel, it allows them to move him to 3B to expedite his path to the majors.

[SoCalTiger]

3 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Watching Verlander and the Astros take on the Mariners on FS1 and I swear JV is an absolute freak. It's 2022 but if he was in a Tigers uniform you could've told me it was 2012 and judging by his stuff and performance I wouldn't have known. Still throwing 99mph in the 7th inning 100+ pitches in. Ended the day with 7 innings of 1 run ball with 9Ks, lowered his ERA slightly to 1.86 and WHIP to .88. 

Ya I watched it too in the 7th inning under stress with runners on and the crowd yelling and he just let it go and got out of it. 
In hindsight he could have been the cornerstone of our rebuild. Unreal. 39 and blowing 99 at 90 pitches in. 

[KL2]

12 minutes ago, casimir said:

Factor those aspects, and I think we will see Candelario through next season.

I would say that's a low chance. 

He hits his second abritration years and starts to get really exensive. They could non tender him and take his money for any infield position and probably get at least what he produced this year. 

[casimir]

5 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

I don’t agree that Jeimer is on the squad next season.  I think if Kreidler stays healthy, he gets called up to play 3B in September.  They’ll non-tender Candelario, IMO

They may keep Kreidler in Toledo rather than starting his clock.

It’ll be interesting to see what they do when rosters expand.  I may be wrong, but didn’t they limit September rosters to only 28 or 29 with the current CBA?  They’ll probably go with another pitcher, maybe a 3rd catcher, and probably a position player already on the 40.

I’m not at all suggesting that Candelario has earned a role next season.  I just don’t think they’ll pursue an upgrade.  I suppose there’s probably room for both Candelario and Kreidler on the roster.  Or maybe they find a way to get another Castro.

[casimir]

Just now, KL2 said:

I would say that's a low chance. 

He hits his second abritration years and starts to get really exensive. They could non tender him and take his money for any infield position and probably get at least what he produced this year. 

How does an arbitrator look at 2022 numbers and rule in favor of the player?  Never mind the fact that numbers haven’t been exchanged yet.

I understand what you’re saying, though.  His price tag might be too much for questionable production.  That’s a perfectly fair point.

[KL2]

Just now, casimir said:

How does an arbitrator look at 2022 numbers and rule in favor of the player?  Never mind the fact that numbers haven’t been exchanged yet.

I understand what you’re saying, though.  His price tag might be too much for questionable production.  That’s a perfectly fair point.

It always goes up in abritration always. He makes just under $6 million this year. That's 6 million that could go to other positions. You've held on long enough and he's shown flashes bust hasn't been consistent. At this point he's unleikly to be here in two years. Time to just cut bait. Plus his position 1st/3rd is the easiest to fine cheaper production on the FA market. 

They'll take his, Grossman, Barnhart money and spent $10 on a pitcher and $10 on an infielder and hope just the fact everybody doesn't die in 2023 makes em better. 

[mtutiger]

24 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

Doesn’t help us for this season, but I suspect Keith will move to 3B at Erie next year.  With Jung and Graham now in the pipeline, along with Wenceel, it allows them to move him to 3B to expedite his path to the majors.

Even setting aside Jung, Graham, Keith or Perez, Jeimer has been bad enough where I'm questioning whether Kody Clemens or Brendon Davis are worse options.

It would be nice to know whether this horrific season was a one off, but aside from the unknown of what replaces him, I don't see the compelling reason to tender him.

[SoCalTiger]

Candy DFA. Another player Al held on too long. He led the league in doubles last year. Good time to trade. Better one year early than one year late. See Boyd Fullmer. Rising salary + slow inconsistent growth in early years then breakout means selling high. 
 

[Tenacious D]

I really want to see Barnhart, Grossman and Candelario just go away.  And I don’t think I’d wait for the offseason to do it.  This type of ongoing sloppy play and poor performance requires making changes.  Would we be worse off with Garneau, Cameron, Hill and Clemens getting those  AB’s?  Perhaps, but at least most of those guys should be evaluated.  They might have a future in the organization.

[casimir]

And to think that Candelario was essentially benched just last weekend for poor play.

[Hart]

8 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

Doesn’t help us for this season, but I suspect Keith will move to 3B at Erie next year.  With Jung and Graham now in the pipeline, along with Wenceel, it allows them to move him to 3B to expedite his path to the majors.

I would think Lipcius would be an option as well.  Make it an open competition between Kreidler, Lipcius, and possibly Candelario.  Throw Wenceel in there too, although if he is ready I would rather have Schoop move to third and start Wenceel's career at second.  If those guys fail, you got Keith coming behind them.  

I'd lean towards non tending Jeimer as well but that is tough pill to swallow given how bad we are and what he was supposed to be going end to the year.  Not sure how he got this bad.  

[casimir]

8 hours ago, KL2 said:

It always goes up in abritration always. He makes just under $6 million this year. That's 6 million that could go to other positions. You've held on long enough and he's shown flashes bust hasn't been consistent. At this point he's unleikly to be here in two years. Time to just cut bait. Plus his position 1st/3rd is the easiest to fine cheaper production on the FA market. 

They'll take his, Grossman, Barnhart money and spent $10 on a pitcher and $10 on an infielder and hope just the fact everybody doesn't die in 2023 makes em better. 

For some reason I thought Candelario was only at $4M this season, but, yes, it looks like he's at $5.8M.  I don't know how much it will go up, but it doesn't seem it would go up all that much based on lumping in this season.  I can't imagine him here in 2 years with how this season is going.  On the other hand, Buck Farmer was around for parts of 8 seasons, so, yeah.

Cots' list of free agents doesn't seem up to date.  Just looking at 3 players (Tim Anderson, Jose Ramirez, and Xander Bogarts), Ramirez and Bogarts have signed extensions and are not free agents this offseason.  I guess technically the White Sox have a club option on Anderson.

Who knows, maybe they will decide to go with Clemens/Kreidler in some form or fashion at 3B next season.  Or they will see Brandon Drury's out of nowhere 2022 and throw 5/$100M at him.

[Hart]

4 minutes ago, casimir said:

For some reason I thought Candelario was only at $4M this season, but, yes, it looks like he's at $5.8M.  I don't know how much it will go up, but it doesn't seem it would go up all that much based on lumping in this season.  I can't imagine him here in 2 years with how this season is going.  On the other hand, Buck Farmer was around for parts of 8 seasons, so, yeah.

Cots' list of free agents doesn't seem up to date.  Just looking at 3 players (Tim Anderson, Jose Ramirez, and Xander Bogarts), Ramirez and Bogarts have signed extensions and are not free agents this offseason.  I guess technically the White Sox have a club option on Anderson.

Who knows, maybe they will decide to go with Clemens/Kreidler in some form or fashion at 3B next season.  Or they will see Brandon Drury's out of nowhere 2022 and throw 5/$100M at him.

Forgot about Clemens.  He is definitely in the conversation as well at third.  

 

[casimir]

11 minutes ago, Hart said:

Forgot about Clemens.  He is definitely in the conversation as well at third.  

 

He might be in our conversation, but is he in the Tigers' conversation?

I think sometimes its easy on here to confuse what we think the Tigers should do and what the Tigers think they should do.  3B next season is a prime example.  My opinion is that the Tigers are more likely to bring Candelario back than the majority of folks here would.

As far as Clemens in the 3B mix, he has moved around the Toledo diamond a bit this season after seasons of being a 2B exclusively.  I'm fine with trying him there.  I think there was some open concern about his arm strength.  If he can pick it down there with some sort of range (which I don't think Candelario has much of) maybe at worst its a net change of 0 defensively.  I don't know.  If a remember correctly, Candelario was never projected to be a traditional offensive threat for the 3B position anyway, but he's obviously well below those nominal expectations this season.