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01/11/2023 7:00 EST Minnesota Timberwolves vs Detroit Pistons


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cade being out kind of insulates him.  that and the fact that nobody cares about the pistons right now.

if cade were playing poorly he might be feeling it a bit.

if theyre still terrible next year, then i suspect the heat will come.

 

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What is a health Cade worth?  5 or 6 wins a season I would guess.  So add 3 wins and you now have 14.  That gives them the 5th worst record instead of the 2nd worst.  I just think you should be further along in the third year.

If they do not make the playoffs next year then Weaver should be fired.

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19 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

What is a health Cade worth?  5 or 6 wins a season I would guess.  So add 3 wins and you now have 14.  That gives them the 5th worst record instead of the 2nd worst.  I just think you should be further along in the third year.

If they do not make the playoffs next year then Weaver should be fired.

Oddly enough, Duren is the only pick they have made who has actually produced any winshares at all. So they aren't any better. We've got guys that *may* do something (Cade obviously and Ivey) but haven't actually done anything yet. We are still wishcasting based on potential.

Edited by gehringer_2
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59 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

What is a health Cade worth?  5 or 6 wins a season I would guess.  So add 3 wins and you now have 14.  That gives them the 5th worst record instead of the 2nd worst.  I just think you should be further along in the third year.

If they do not make the playoffs next year then Weaver should be fired.

Considering they just announced that he got an extension, I don't see this happening.

Doesn't mean your point isn't valid, just not likely.

I'm just glad that Casey is starting to get more national media attention as a large part of the issue. Both the offense and the defense are broken. Here's the latest pod from Vecinie clearly calling out Casey as someone who needs to go "by the end of the year" (the 4:30 mark of the video):

 

 

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if they have cade, victor/scoot, ivey, tons of cap space, and STILL are terrible?  that would be cause to examine weaver.

i've never been the biggest fan, but i liked the killian, ivey, duren, and cade picks.  some of the rest of the moves ive thought were highly questionable, but those picks are the most important ones.

stewart and bey are role players are best and about to become expensive.  are they really foundational pieces?  i dont think so.

the positive news is that killian has been playing better.

the next step for weaver is to get rid of casey after they get another top 3 pick.  if he does that, i'll feel better about him.

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For me, the jury is still out on Weaver.

I like a lot of what he did to quickly reboot that roster I hated a few years ago. Since then, he's done a lot of good things and also some confusing things.

The best thing he's done might simply be fixing the cap situation. It's all about finding that superstar to build around and they have the ability to move in a number of directions due to the cap flexibility they have as well as the high draft pick coming this offseason.

I also think he's made solid use of his draft picks, even though it's tough to call that so early in these player's career. There are things we can question in hindsight, but overall I think he's beaten the odds on that front.

The current roster construction is questionable at best, but I don't think this is anywhere near the finished product. You're not locked into any of these players.

This offseason is key. What happens with the draft and what happens with the cap space? If you land your 1A, then you can really start looking at roster construction and assembling a team to compete. Until then it's just a game of moving around assets and keeping things flexible until you find that core.

The question is how many more years do you give Weaver to find that core player(s)? Cade is probably 1 of them, but I'm not sure he's the 1A.

My bigger problem is with the coaching and system on both sides of the ball. I think it's hurting the development of the youngsters, teaching them to play selfish ball, and just making this an unwatchable product. If Casey has a front office role carved out for him as many have suggested, then it's on Weaver to make that happen at the end of this year. If he doesn't, then that's going to be a big vote against Weaver for me.

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4 hours ago, Betrayer said:

For me, the jury is still out on Weaver.

I like a lot of what he did to quickly reboot that roster I hated a few years ago. Since then, he's done a lot of good things and also some confusing things.

The best thing he's done might simply be fixing the cap situation. It's all about finding that superstar to build around and they have the ability to move in a number of directions due to the cap flexibility they have as well as the high draft pick coming this offseason.

I also think he's made solid use of his draft picks, even though it's tough to call that so early in these player's career. There are things we can question in hindsight, but overall I think he's beaten the odds on that front.

The current roster construction is questionable at best, but I don't think this is anywhere near the finished product. You're not locked into any of these players.

This offseason is key. What happens with the draft and what happens with the cap space? If you land your 1A, then you can really start looking at roster construction and assembling a team to compete. Until then it's just a game of moving around assets and keeping things flexible until you find that core.

The question is how many more years do you give Weaver to find that core player(s)? Cade is probably 1 of them, but I'm not sure he's the 1A.

My bigger problem is with the coaching and system on both sides of the ball. I think it's hurting the development of the youngsters, teaching them to play selfish ball, and just making this an unwatchable product. If Casey has a front office role carved out for him as many have suggested, then it's on Weaver to make that happen at the end of this year. If he doesn't, then that's going to be a big vote against Weaver for me.

Yes, I think he’s done pretty well with draft picks and carving out roster/salary flexibility.  It hasn’t been perfect, but on the whole it’s progressed in the right direction to build from within.

Got anyone in mind to replace Casey?

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13 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

If he was even average with the draft picks they would be competing for a play in spot this year.

if you compare what Cleveland, who were at the same level as the Pistons 3-4 yrs ago, is getting from Garland and Mobley, the Piston's results don't look very good. Now maybe Cunningham getting back on the court with an improved eFG next year puts it all right, but it hasn't happened yet.

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51 minutes ago, casimir said:

Why?

Because there are some specific characteristics that I believe would make Chauncey a successful head coach:

1) I though he was a brilliant court tactician. Some might argue that was all Larry Brown; but I don't think so. I believe Chauncey could "think" the game with his high basketball IQ. He's an Assistant Coach with the Clippers right now... I believe he will soon become someone's head coach and would love it getting him back here in Detroit. Not as a homer, but for his basketball IQ.

2) I believe he relates well with players, helped Paul George become a better passer with the Clippers, communicates well, has always been poised, and a leader. As a player he was tough-minded, and a cold-blooded assassin/ killer. I think he would bring these attributes to the Pistons as a head coach. And instill them into the team. I think he'd be a perfect fit for Cade-Ivey-Killian, and guys like Bey-Stewart-Duren as well...

3) Being a part of the 2004-05 Pistons, I believe, influenced him as to the value of ferocious, hard-nosed defense. I don't know if he still carries that, as a defensive philosophy... but I would like to believe that he still has that in his DNA, and would like to see if he can instill that into the current version of the Pistons. I mean, modern rules and modern game and all... so not the same defense as that era... but I mean the attitude to play that tough defense. Stew & Noel have it on the current Pistons... I'm not certain anyone else does. 

 

Here's and old article from the Clipper 2021...

https://www.latimes.com/sports/clippers/story/2021-06-13/clippers-assistant-chauncey-billups-destined-to-be-head-coach

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6 hours ago, Deleterious said:

Nobody would ever want Billups if he never played here.

He also kinda sucks.  I know Dame was out for a few games but they are currently the 11th seed in a weak west.

I agree that I think there is a high degree of homerism here.

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7 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

Because there are some specific characteristics that I believe would make Chauncey a successful head coach:

1) I though he was a brilliant court tactician. Some might argue that was all Larry Brown; but I don't think so. I believe Chauncey could "think" the game with his high basketball IQ. He's an Assistant Coach with the Clippers right now... I believe he will soon become someone's head coach and would love it getting him back here in Detroit. Not as a homer, but for his basketball IQ.

2) I believe he relates well with players, helped Paul George become a better passer with the Clippers, communicates well, has always been poised, and a leader. As a player he was tough-minded, and a cold-blooded assassin/ killer. I think he would bring these attributes to the Pistons as a head coach. And instill them into the team. I think he'd be a perfect fit for Cade-Ivey-Killian, and guys like Bey-Stewart-Duren as well...

3) Being a part of the 2004-05 Pistons, I believe, influenced him as to the value of ferocious, hard-nosed defense. I don't know if he still carries that, as a defensive philosophy... but I would like to believe that he still has that in his DNA, and would like to see if he can instill that into the current version of the Pistons. I mean, modern rules and modern game and all... so not the same defense as that era... but I mean the attitude to play that tough defense. Stew & Noel have it on the current Pistons... I'm not certain anyone else does. 

 

Here's and old article from the Clipper 2021...

https://www.latimes.com/sports/clippers/story/2021-06-13/clippers-assistant-chauncey-billups-destined-to-be-head-coach

He's the current head coach in Portland.

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On 1/11/2023 at 7:11 AM, Deleterious said:

At what point does Weaver start getting some heat?

They're missing their best player pretty much the entire season and this was a rebuild year even with Cade. This is really only the 2nd full year of the rebuild which I'm sure was given the ok from upstairs. I doubt Weaver is even remotely close to the hot seat. Casey, on the other hand....

Edited by NYLion
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