1984Echoes

So a couple BP guys maybe... Skubal as 5th starter/ swing guy... Greene as a bench guy... Maybe... HAROLD CASTRO on the bench!!!!

Aaah, now I get it! Just trying to catch up to the thread... Hah!

Five frickin' walks... In two innings... Frickin' UGLY!!!

The rebuild is... OVER!!!!

OR... did you mean just performance 2022 versus 1984? YEESH!!! Is that even a question? Maybe a couple of bullpen guys as set up before Senor Smoke & Willie?

PS: On that note: Did we have 4 starters or 5 starters in 1984 in a rotation? Dave Rozema, Milt Wilcox, and sometimes Juan Berenguer? Because I'm hoping we have a whole lot better pitching in our rotation than in 1984... so: Mize, Manning, Skubal, Turnbull, Brieske, Rodriguez, Wentz (in the future of course... whoever survives the next coupla years...)

OK... gotcha... So what you are asking is... which players in 2022 COULD be on the 1984 team... some day (if they show themselves to get to that level..). Am I correct on that? Just asking because now I think you are asking for a projection on these new kids... Want me to make a list? 😉

They wouldn't release him. They would "retire" him and ask him to be a goodwill ambassador, or a bench coach (to be around the guys...). Or they would 60-day IL him. Or they could tell him to just "stay home". There are multiple ways to not play him. Some nicer than others. But they will pay him $40 Mill no matter what. They will NOT release him. And if they don't want him to play... again, some paths are nicer than others...

He could very easily embarrass HIMSELF... by PLAYING next year.

Again... Riley Greene is a ROOKIE. And you're trying to compare him to the 1984 Tigers. So answer me this: Who amongst these Tigers was a rookie in 1984? Alan Trammell, Jack Morris, Dave Rozema, Dan Petry, Lou Whitaker, Kirk Gibson, Darrell Evans, Lance Parrish, Howard Johnson, Tom Brookens, Willie Hernandez, Chet Lemon, or Aurelio Lopez?

DFA is meaningless. They pay him regardless. But there are still multiple ways to not play him and still pay him.

Yes it is. And I have not said ONE word about negotiations or settlements. That is from other posters. Unless I am mistaken, you won't find a single post from me that says we can "negotiate" with him or find a settlement. My statement has always been exactly this: If the team wants to move on, they pay him his $40 Mill and tell him to stay home. That's it. I've never said otherwise. There are multiple ways to do that. Some nice. Some not so nice. But Miggy has NO CONTROL over the team's decision. He does NOT play unless the team agrees to let him play. You're under some delusion that Miggy is all-powerful and gets to tell the team whether to play him, regardless of whether they want to or not. It doesn't matter whether he "wants" to play... Your statement is: False.

2024 won't vest. But there's an $8 mill buyout guaranteed so $32 Mill plus $8 Mill = the $40 Mill check coming his way. Either to sit... or to play.

That has yet to be determined. Unknown at this point. And... seriously? Guys are in their rookie or 2nd years and we're supposed to know if they can cut it on 1984 Tigers? Sheesh... give it a couple more years because it's going to take that long to hash out all these young kids to see who swims (survives), thrives, or... sinks. I mean... tell me what Riley Greene's career stats will be: RIGHT NOW!!!

They don't have a choice. It's in the contract. He gets paid regardless of whether he plays or not.

Doesn't mean a damn thing. Plans are/ were made... to be broken.

So then this: "The only way he does not play is if he and he alone decides not to" ... is an untrue statement. Isn't it?

Maybe... But I've already stated that I think this is a redux of the late 70's Tigers, it's not a redux of the late 90's Tigers... and that I think the year is "1979", not 1983 or 1984. We're obviously not "on the cusp". I believe that was my 2021 statement (trying to get everyone to come off the ledge after our awful start); and it's the same statement I made this preseason. We're not their yet. But we have a lot of talented kids, even if no one else sees it. 1977 rookies: Alan Trammell, Lou Whitaker, Jason Thompson (actually 1976), Lance Parrish, Jack Morris, Steve Kemp, Dave Rozema. 1979 rookies: Dan Petry, Kirk Gibson, Lynn Jones, Tom Brookens. 1982 rookies: Howard Johnson. A few things: Not all those players made it to 1984. Some were traded for other pieces (Kemp for Chet Lemon) that fit better. Not all players were stars, but were just bench, or bullpen, or other bit players. And to build 1984, additional "other" pieces were still needed through trades or FA signings. Also... 1979 when we had all that talent already in MLB... STILL took until 1984 to win it all. Gosh I hope when all these new kids come up it doesn't take that long to go all the way... But I think the talent that Avila has amassed in the minors, right now, and just starting to break into MLB over the past couple years (well also Turnbull 4 years ago, Jimenez 5 years ago...), is capable of building the same type of team. Talented enough to make the playoffs and possibly go all the way. I think our system is boatloaded with talent right now, even if it's not arriving or handling MLB as fast as everyone wants. I mean, obviously, hence all the complaints against AA. But I have a higher belief in most of these prospects (not ALL of them will make it, obviously); much higher than apparently anyone else on this board. I believe in Tork's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Riley Greene's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Baddoo's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Cameron's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Wenceel's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Manning's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Skubal's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Mize's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Wilmer Flores's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Brieske's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Dingler's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Faedo's talent (even if he's be better off in the BP), and believe he will "make it", I believe in Colt Keith's talent (I really like this dude as a prospect). I might even believe that Parker Meadows will "make it" after thinking he was a total flop... because he apparently has fixed the flaw in his swing. And I haven't even gotten into the International guys (aside from Wenceel) who I think will grow into "real" prospects over the next couple of years, or this year's draft picks (high hopes for Jung and Graham), or Jobe or Madden or Dylan Smith from 2021... Pre-2020 Rookies: 2019 Jake Rogers & Tyler Alexander & Greg Soto, 2018 Spencer Turnbull, 2017 Joe Jimenez. 2020 Rookies: Casey Mize, Tarik Skubal, Daz Cameron, Rony Garcia, 2021 Rookies: Matt Manning, Akil Baddoo, Alex Lange, Jason Foley, 2022 Rookies: Spencer Torkelson, Riley Greene, Beau Brieske, Kody Clemens, Joey Wentz, Alex Faedo, 2023 Rookies (guessing... even if it's just a September cup of coffee): Wenceel Perez, Dillon Dingler, Parker Meadows, Reese Olson, Ryan Kreidler, Kerry Carpenter, maybe Wilmer Flores too... 2024 Rookies (same, guessing): Colt Keith, Gage Workman... maybe a BP guy or two...

This was the exact reason Ilitch dumped DD. Loyalty means everything to Ilitch and DD was disloyal just "talking" about the Red Sox (He said about two weeks prior to his release that he would "love" to work for an organization like the Red Sox, what a wonderful Org they were...). THAT is the reason he was released.

This is where I think you are missing something... The FO is perfectly in their rights to send him home and tell him he's not playing for the Tigers in 2023. They pay him $40 Mill regardless of whether he plays or not. But you're making the assumption that Miggy can FORCE the team to put him on the opening 26? Can FORCE the team to play him? That's just not true.

That hasn't been determined yet. Until he's on the 26 next April 1st, it's all just... talk. By all sides.

Wrong again.

Nope. Wrong answer.

Oh I was on the bandwagon to part ways with him last year. I'm ready to move on and try out new guys like Isaac Paredes (whoops, too late!), Kerry Carpenter, Austin Meadows, and/ or whoever else we can drop into that spot just to see if anything sticks. Starting last year... I was going to say "what's the point of stringing out Miggy's time in MLB, he's done for..." But like I said, I was ready last year and was outvoted so that he could hit his milestones. And I'm glad I switched trains and jumped on board with the milestones... And I probably was ready also, like you say, right after he got his 3,000 to move on... but I can wait for the offseason. But it is time to move on. Before he embarrasses himself. It was pretty hysterical though to read that "there's NO POSSIBLE REASON WHATSOEVER that he will retire before the 2023 season..." because, like I said... I can think of a few.

This is why I stil have belief in Avila... You can disagree with me on each and every single name on this list (I'm projecting what our 2025 Lineup could be, plus 40-man guys, AAA guys not on the 40... and probably a few too many bench guys but that can be whittled down... probably quite easily as I see at least a few names I'd like to show the door...) just to take a look at some expectations/ available/ and push back where there are more names available than spots... Also, the bullpen is fungible so you can swap any or all names there too... 2025 Tigers (projection): Projecting Detroit Tigers, 2025: Position Starter Backup 40-Man or AAA Catcher Dillon Dingler Jake Rogers Josh Crouch 1B Spencer Torkelson Harold Castro Peyton Graham 2B Javy Baez Kody Clemens Jace Jung SS Wenceel Perez Gage Workman Christian Santana Manuel Sequera Trei Cruz 3B Colten Keith Adinso Reyes Izaac Pacheco OF LF - Akil Baddoo Daz Cameron Jose De La Cruz CF - Riley Greene Bryant Packard RF - Parker Meadows Willi Castro Roberto Campos DH Kerry Carpenter Eric Haase Andre Lipcius Andrew Navigato Rotation Matt Manning Reese Olson Tarik Skubal Joey Wentz Eduardo Rodriguez Beau Brieske Casey Mize Jackson Jobe Wilmer Flores Ty Madden Bullpen Joe Jimenez Dylan Smith Greg Soto Aaron Haase Alex Lange Juan Polanco Jason Foley Ignacio Briceno Ty Alexander Darwyn Zambrano Alex Faedo Rony Garcia Brant Hurter Donal Montas