mtutiger

I get it, but the initial comment framed trading bullpen pieces as a means to gather as many lottery tickets as possible. Maybe Lange isn't untradeable under the right circumstances, but I would be against trading him for prospects at this point.... unless the haul is absolutely massive, I think he's too valuable to be wasting on lottery tickets.

A lot of the problem (and why folks may muse about putting the entire bullpen on the block) stems from guys on expiring contracts not playing as a marketable product right now. Outside of Fulmer, you aren't getting much back from the expiring contracts they are carrying. At least at the moment

Good and detailed post, well done.

I'm gonna repeat something I said in another thread last week, which is that, excepting New York (series now over) and Toronto, the schedule is pretty manageable going into the All Star Break. Series against Pittsburgh, Texas, Boston, Arizona and SF, along with a boatload of games against the Royals, Guardians and White Sox (who have underperformed thus far). Outside of SF (and maybe Chicago, depending on whether they get their act together), these are a more manageable run of games than they have been able to have in a stretch all season. And yes, over the next couple of weeks, as insufficient as the reinforcements may ultimately be, we will be getting Meadows, ERod, Grossman, etc. back, and maybe will see Riley Greene enter the fold. I understand that people aren't gonna want to hear anything positive after getting kicked in the gonads by the 39-15 Yankees for the past three games, but they have played a brutal schedule to start the season.... it would have been brutal had they been healthy, but it is especially so with all of the injuries. So let's see what they can do going forward to the break.... they are 11 games under right now and 10 games back, and even with the brutal series against the Yankees, they still have played over .500 (12-10) since the Baltimore series. Try to claw back some games and get closer to .500 by the AS Break. I'm not even saying that it's likely to happen, but there still is time at least in theory. If they manage that and some of their talent manages to play up to career standards (ie. Baez, Schoop, Grossman) or they get improvements from their younger guys (Tork), .500 on the season is within reach. Regarding the rest of the division, I wonder whether 88-89 is too high.... I don't believe much in the Twins and think the White Sox will ultimately prevail. But that number could end up being closer to 84 -85.

Just setting aside what actual baseball people think, it is something to agree or disagree on. You think we need to see more from Lange, I'm less inclined to think we need to see more. Can't get more subjective than that. Based on what I have seen over the last 35 or so appearances from Alex Lange, he looks pretty good and is the real deal. And the cost should be awfully high if he's on the block.

Again, agree to disagree on this one.

Fair enough... agree to disagree on this one

Is it a small sample size though? His string of success actually stretches back to into the second half of last year, where he posted a sub-2.0 era after being called up at the end of the season over 18 appearances. Factoring that in, that's close to a half season worth of data points that suggests he's pretty good.

I do agree generally that none of these guys should be traded for lottery tickets... major league talent that can fix the deficiencies of the current roster.

I'm open to the idea that he may be a little over his head at the moment (even though his peripherals this season suggest he's more real than not). But even so, if you have a guy like this who is controllable for six upcoming years and you feel reasonably confident can be a part of a winning ballclub within that time frame, the price for a trade needs to be pegged accordingly. Otherwise, as Chas asks, what are we doing here?

When they built the street, they should have installed it with one door that locks on the outside....

I can see Michael Fulmer as a trade piece as he is hits free agency in 2023, but trading Alex Lange, who is one of the best relievers in baseball right now? Who is under control for the next six years? The bird in the hand for the next six years is more likely than not gonna be worth more than what you get in return. Especially with Al doing the trades.

The price for Lange needs to be really, really high. He's controllable through 2028, and he's basically the heir apparent for the closer role. The others, I don't care as much, but I can see them not delivering enough of a return for Lange given his age and talent.

Except Lange.

I'm guessing Harold plays a lot of 3B if Candy goes on the IL In terms of the spot, Brendon Davis is on the 40 man...I don't know if he's next man up, but it's either him or Short who likely come up if Candy goes on IL one would think

Has there been any word on Candelario and whether this turns into an IL stint? Could end up being the Kody Clemens/Brendon Davis show at 3B lol

Fair point. Either way, point still stands... hard to make macro declarations in the heat of a series like this one.

And yet that could still result in more than 77 wins.

This is all fair, even if we may disagree at points. My only point is that it's hard to make declarative statements about the season or where they may fall in terms of wins and losses purely on the basis of playing the hottest team in baseball who now holds a 39-15 record. Just feels like people are treating the Yankees like they are chopped liver... the Tigers would have been lucky to win 2 out of 3 with how they are playing. Doesn't mean that I'm happy with the level of play, particularly offensively, but let's have some perspective at least

I'm sure I'll be laughed out of the thread for suggesting this, but I think this can still be a 77 win team or better... as bad as the last three games have been, it's still come against a team that is the best and hottest in baseball, who now has a 39-15 record. Now that the Yankees and Dodgers are off the schedule, they won't face a tougher team for the remainder of the year. The pitching has largely held up and will likely continue to hold the ship to some extent, especially as guys like ERod and Pineda come back. But it really comes down to the offense playing up to career averages. They largely have not thus far.

This one really sucks...if they walk out of New York with a win, they basically meet expectations going against a team as good as the Yankees They had a chance but the defense just collapsed. Six outs to win a ballgame, the bullpen did its part, but the defense failed. Obviously wished they would have done more in the 10th offensively, but the game felt lost after they allowed NY to score without a single hit in the 8th

Lol, he'll never get the money he's currentlu owed if he plays like this

When your offense is as bad as there's, it basically forces pitching and defense to get perfect to win. And today, the defense fell short Pretty simple really

Miggy!