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02/10/2023 7:00 EST San Antonio Spurs vs Detroit Pistons


casimir

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5 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Been watching some of the game tonight and nothing too exciting other than Duren making a few sweet moves in the post. Also can't believe Stanley Johnson is still in the league. Amazing that he has carved out an 8 year career for himself thus far. 

It's bench minutes, but his 3pt% this sesason is over 40%. Stanley only playing for layups and treys nowadays and apparently doing better for it - highest eFG% of his career.

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9 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

Or pushed to the bench.

That's a given.  Upgrading the power forward position is some really low hanging fruit for the Pistons to improve.  I like Beef Stew but it's pretty clear at this point he is a better fit off the bench.  

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9 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Duren still playing hard and going after every loose ball. He's looking like young Drummond except with a heart and better post moves. 

Much better defensive instincts too.  Drummond had the physical tools but never was able to put it all together.  

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33 minutes ago, buddha said:

drummond on a cheap salary in his early years was fine.

IDK if I'd go *that* far. :classic_wink:. There was a lot of frustration with Drummond from day one.

If we recall, two things with young Drummond was that he didn't have strong hands, and since he couldn't hit FTs he was going to be fouled down low even if had better post moves. I don't know if Wiseman has strong enough hands to hold onto the ball better than Drummond, but he's going to start out ahead of young Drummond just by virtue of being able to hit his FTs.

Assuming the deal goes through...

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14 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

IDK if I'd go *that* far. :classic_wink:. There was a lot of frustration with Drummond from day one.

If we recall, two things with young Drummond was that he didn't have strong hands, and since he couldn't hit FTs he was going to be fouled down low even if had better post moves. I don't know if Wiseman has strong enough hands to hold onto the ball better than Drummond, but he's going to start out ahead of young Drummond just by virtue of being able to hit his FTs.

Assuming the deal goes through...

wiseman is much more skilled than drummond ever was.  drummond was a 6'11 manchild.  when all he was tasked to do was run, jump, and dunk, he was fine.  it was when he got paid and then demanded to be a focal point on offense when he became ridiculous.  then as the game changed he became a ridiculous albatross.

but in the beginning he was more than fine.

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You are both right.  There was a lot of hate early on towards Drummond.  But it definitely ratcheted up after he was paid.

But even after he got paid people still loved him.  As his extension was expiring, Orlando signed Nikola Vucevic to a new deal that averaged $25M per year.  I said if Detroit gives Drummond anywhere near that they are insane.  Multiple people here said he would get more.  So a lot of folks still liked him even towards the end of his time here.  

FWIW, he ended up signing for the league minimum in LA.

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I said this about Duren before the draft.  If he can defend on the perimeter he will be a decent/good player.  If he cant then he is worthless because that type of C can not play in the playoffs.  Year after year we see the traditional big benched in the playoffs because offenses attack them on the perimeter.  We see DPOY centers like Gobert struggle year after year because they cant defend on the perimeter in the playoffs.  Drop coverage centers get roasted in the playoffs.

 

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4 hours ago, Deleterious said:

I said this about Duren before the draft.  If he can defend on the perimeter he will be a decent/good player.  If he cant then he is worthless because that type of C can not play in the playoffs.  Year after year we see the traditional big benched in the playoffs because offenses attack them on the perimeter.  We see DPOY centers like Gobert struggle year after year because they cant defend on the perimeter in the playoffs.  Drop coverage centers get roasted in the playoffs.

 

then why do the pistons keep collecting them?

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36 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Wasn't Weaver just quoted as saying you win by dominating the boards? Hasn't anyone told him that when half the shots in a game are threes you can't dominate rebounding from the post because rebounds go everywhere?

or that when you have a ton of immobile bigs, modern teams will shoot over you or drive around you, making those bigs unplayable.

as an example, you can see the playoffs for the last five years or so.

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all i've heard this week from the weaver apologists is that he's really good at drafting so we should trust him on wiseman.

but is he?  what evidence is there that he's good at drafting?  hayes/bey/stewart has produced what?  two average to below average nba rotation players and a point guard who has been borderline unplayable until recently when he's graduated to "poor starter, potential bench player".  

cade, who hasnt played enough to determine if he's going to be any good, but has shown some encouraging signs but some not so encouraging signs...and he was the #1 pick.  and ivey/duren, who the jury is very much out on.  

i think his asset management has been extremely poor.  theyre supposedly building up to this offseason with a bunch of salary cap money, but just spent a bunch of that on marvin bagley and james wiseman.

we keep being told that this is all going to miraculously come together next year when we have all this money.  we shall see.  as del has said before, if the pistons arent play in candidates at the very least by next year weaver should be fired.

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13 minutes ago, buddha said:

or that when you have a ton of immobile bigs...

I may be wrong.. but I don't think these guys are immobile.

I believe Stew is all over the court and is very... mobile. A poor man's Ben Wallace if you will. With slightly better offensive ability.

Bagley and Duren and Wiseman are all very athletic and mobile.

I don't think Bagley will ever get it. He is what he is so he's not a good defender.

Duren and Wiseman are young, athletic, and fast... and could turn into Rasheed Wallace's. Will they? Wiseman's shortcoming's are basketball IQ (which could simply be a product of a lack of playing time from COVID, injury, 3 college games, etc.), a steep learning curve, not much defense, and a need for lots of playing time to get through all the aforementioned issues.

Duren seems like he has less obstacles to become a good defender.

10 minutes ago, buddha said:

... as del has said before, if the pistons arent play in candidates at the very least by next year weaver should be fired.

Will this all work? Especially with Wiseman and Duren needing to develop (IMO Wiseman will be the Center coming off the bench for the rest of this season and... only if he improves defense, IQ, and 3-point range will he overtake starting Center position. If Duren is pushed over to PF by Wiseman (and becomes - Shawn Kemp (of course!!!)), I'm fine with that. Bagley can be the Center off the bench and Stew can be the PF/ energy guy off the bench...

No idea.

But Weaver fired by next season if they aren't a play-in...?

Ridiculous.

Not going to happen.

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You need to be top 10 out of 16 to make the play in game.  If you cant become top 10 in 4 years you should be fired.

At that point he will have 3 1st round draft picks (Hayes/Bey/Stewart) in their fourth year.  At least two of those guys should be starting to lead a franchise in year 4.  Hell, it should be happening this year to be honest, but it isn't.  Not number one option super star type leading.  But they should be out there contributing to enough wins so you are not one of the worst teams in the league, even with a Cade injury.

 

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