pfife Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 Just now, RatkoVarda said: amazing to me that Manchin and Collins are trying to convince their voters and the press that when obvious liars told obvious lies, and when they were warned that obviously these obvious liars are obviously lying, that Manchin and Collins were so stupid they actually believed the obvious lies I was told yesterday that the Sanders left has responsibility for what has happened b/c the Right consistently told us what they were going to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 1 minute ago, pfife said: I was told yesterday that the Sanders left has responsibility for what has happened b/c the Right consistently told us what they were going to do. to make a serious point, there are a dozen or so failure points over the last 30 years for Dems re abortion some are big and some are little, some were obvious and some were subtle, more than enough blame to go around to many people - Victory has a thousand fathers, but defeat is an orphan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 Just now, RatkoVarda said: to make a serious point, there are a dozen or so failure points over the last 30 years for Dems re abortion some are big and some are little, some were obvious and some were subtle, more than enough blame to go around to many people - Victory has a thousand fathers, but defeat is an orphan my point was serious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kacie Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 13 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Have you considered that Cisneros lost because her message did not resonate with much of the district that she represents? Particularly those living in Laredo and along the border? People talk as if the Democratic Party is magically pulling strings to get candidates elected, yet at the end of the day, it's the voters who ultimately decide these elections. It was the same damn thing when Biden won the nomination.... for some reason, people seem to just want to marginalize the views or feelings of the voters who maybe aren't hard core progressives and just treat them as sheep being herded by the national party. Have you considered Cuellar won because he had to endorsement of the Speaker of the House? She literally went to Texas to campaign for him. Isn't that what money and campaigning is for, to convince voters? My understanding is that she lost by a few hundred votes. How does Pelosi say out one side she's Pro Choice, but campaigns for the Pro Death candidate? Does a challenger have as much money as an incumbent? Again, let's just keep losing, sending out the same message over and over and point our fingers everywhere else and not look at what can be done differently as democracy dies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 (edited) It is hilarious watching folks on this board try to trash me as someone who's just going to attack Democratic voters when: a) They're trashing me so in fact THEY are trashing a Democratic voter (irony), and b) my entrance into this was a post with approximately 12 items blaming REPUBLICANS and CONSERATIVES for this in the context of saying I'd blame all of them before I blamed the Sanders Left (who people here say are Democratic Voters). To which I recieved replies blaming the Sanders left. Clean your own damn houses before you worry about mine. Don't attack Democratic Voters if you don't want Democratic voters attacked Don't attack a Democratic voter for blaming REPUBLICAN actions on REPUBLICANS. Utterly hilarious. And ridiculously hypocritical. No wonder we keep losing - you'd rather attack the left than the GOP and responses to my post demonstrate it clearly. Edited June 25, 2022 by pfife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Kacie said: Have you considered Cuellar won because he had to endorsement of the Speaker of the House? She literally went to Texas to campaign for him. Isn't that what money and campaigning is for, to convince voters? My understanding is that she lost by a few hundred votes. How does Pelosi say out one side she's Pro Choice, but campaigns for the Pro Death candidate? Does a challenger have as much money as an incumbent? Again, let's just keep losing, sending out the same message over and over and point our fingers everywhere else and not look at what can be done differently as democracy dies. Cisneros made a good effort. I probably would have voted for her tbh. But the Speaker of the House isn't why she didn't win enough votes in arguably the most consequential part of the district. And tbh, I don't know if she would win in November... that part of Texas is culturally quite conservative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 39 minutes ago, Kacie said: Maybe Pelosi could start by not campaigning for the only Democratic Pro Forced Birth candidate. When your team keeps losing, you eventually have to look at why. The first place to look in these instances is leadership. At some point you can't keep blaming the other team for winning. Pelosi got the bill passed in the house. One more Democrat in the house is meaningless in regards to codifying Roe. The bill passed the house with only one Democrat dissenting. Tell me, how does Pelosi get it passed in the senate? Remember, 49 of 50 Democratic senators passed it in the senate including pro-life Democrat Bob Casey. At some pint, you actually have to start blaming the people who overturned Roe such as all the justices appointed by Republicans and confirmed by Republican majorities. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 (edited) When I blamed a list of approximately 12 republicans and conservative organizations & groups, people attacked me and said I missed the point and it was the Sanders Left. Weird. ETA: it was 8 items. not 12. Edited June 25, 2022 by pfife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 The Democrats could trash the filibuster and expand the court. But they don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 Now we're in a fucking purity contest over an endorsement of a representative from Texas long after Pelosi got a near unanimous vote from Democrats to codify Roe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 11 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: They are definitely coming after yours, and everyone else's, weed. I’ve been noodling this a bit more, and I don’t know how that would work in blue states. Congress passed a law (during the Trump years!) prohibiting Justice from interfering with state marijuana laws, so unless they change that at the federal level, which they would need 60 Republicans in the Senate to do, I assume (unless someone kills the filibuster), I’m not sure how they get there. So I could see a path to Michigan outlawing weed again, but it’s going to be a tall order to do that in Illinois. All this assumes, of course, there’s no extralegal way to work around laws on books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 (edited) I don't think the codification of Roe bill ever had a chance in the Senate no matter what but there were other varieties that could have been passed from the house that may have been slightly more palatable to people who would have still voted no. Edited June 25, 2022 by pfife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 Democrats could elect more Democrats from states such as PA and WI to eliminate the filibuster but they won't because they are too busy pouting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 You are assuming they'll do that if they get the votes and I think that's at best uncertain there has been a lot of reporting that Manchin and Sinema aren't the only ones against getting rid of the filibuster, they're just taking all of the heat for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 I remember when the Dems had 60 in the senate and still couldn't do stuff. Why am I to assume they're different now? It's basically all the same people still lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 (edited) It also feels like to me if you want to elect more dems, trash the buster, and expand the court, you better have more progressively-oriented folks getting elected b/c centrists clearly seem to be the ones more interested in preserving the filibuster but instead the strategy is to trash progressives and blame them apparently Edited June 25, 2022 by pfife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kacie Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 13 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Pelosi got the bill passed in the house. One more Democrat in the house is meaningless in regards to codifying Roe. The bill passed the house with only one Democrat dissenting. Tell me, how does Pelosi get it passed in the senate? Remember, 49 of 50 Democratic senators passed it in the senate including pro-life Democrat Bob Casey. At some pint, you actually have to start blaming the people who overturned Roe such as all the justices appointed by Republicans and confirmed by Republican majorities. So what happens in 2022 if there is a majority in the Senate and it can't get passed due to the Pro Death Democrat in the house? Whattya gonna do? Yeah, the Tigers keep losing because the Yankees are so good. I mean Avila has only had 8 years. To heck with winning, we can cheer those Miggy milestones! We can't expect to win when everyone else is good. It's not that we suck, it's just other teams are good. Nothing we can do about it. Stop blaming the Tigers, blame the rest of the league! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 Well, Fetterman is on record as willing to eliminate the filibuster. Flip that from Toomey to Fetterman and you have one more vote for eliminating the filibuster. Not sure who the leading candidate is in WI yet. Val Demings is on record for removing the filibuster. Flipping from Rubio to Demings would be another vote. Tim Ryan is on record supporting removing the filibuster. That's a 3rd vote for removing it. Cheri Beasley has supported removing the filibuster in the past but has been inconsistent on it. Still, there's more potential from her to remove the filibuster than whatever Republican wins North Carolina. That's 5 winnable seats and 5 potential votes to remove the filibuster. It won't happen because too many Democrats are self-loathing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 Now do the whip count of existing senators Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 Also I think we can agree that a politician going on the record about something isn't entirely trustworthy but I def believe Fetterman would trash the shit out of it. Beasley too prolly. Not as confident about Demmings but would grant it for sake of argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 basically a high correlation between progressiveness and trashing the fillibuster in my mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Kacie said: So what happens in 2022 if there is a majority in the Senate and it can't get passed due to the Pro Death Democrat in the house? Whattya gonna do? Yeah, the Tigers keep losing because the Yankees are so good. I mean Avila has only had 8 years. To heck with winning, we can cheer those Miggy milestones! We can't expect to win when everyone else is good. It's not that we suck, it's just other teams are good. Nothing we can do about it. Stop blaming the Tigers, blame the rest of the league! Well, it passed by 7 votes already, 218 to 1 by Democrats, you build enough of a majority so that one or two votes doesn't kill the bill. Tell me, what can Pelosi do right now, now that the bill has passed the house several months ago before the endorsement? You complain about leadership, tell me what can she do right now to get it codified by the senate? She literally passed the bill to codify Roe and you can't even acknowledge that she got it done and instead want to complain about an endorsement months after she got the bill passed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 I'll go out on a limb and say Demings is more likely to end the filibuster than Rubio. I know for a fact she will vote to codify Roe unlike Rubio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 (edited) Aside from all of the ideological stuff..... and I love me some Nancy.... I rocked her as my avatar for many years on this forum. But I think the game is really passed her and schumer by. It really has. I respect the shit out of her, I think it's great to see that she got that bill passed but the job only includes that, it's not only that. This is like a multi-media PR hyperspeed job now and it really seems like the Democrats are severally outmanuevered on this front by the GOP all the time. I do think it's generational the Jan 6 hearings are the first time they've come close to being on the same level ETA: I think they had a fundamental assumption things would be "normal" after Trump and it's not and it's a different fight now and they're outmatched. Edited June 25, 2022 by pfife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said: I'll go out on a limb and say Demings is more likely to end the filibuster than Rubio. I know for a fact she will vote to codify Roe unlike Rubio. Actually, I take that back. Rubio will end the filibuster when Republicans get control and vote to enact a national abortion ban. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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