Tenacious D Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 We’ll also be saving close to $20M when Eduardo opts out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 11 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: We’ll also be saving close to $20M when Eduardo opts out. There's a lot of free agent starters next year. He might be in for a rude awakening if he opts out. Either way, I'm not really attached to anyone on this team. Whatever it takes to build a winner is fine with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 1 hour ago, Tigermojo said: There's a lot of free agent starters next year. He might be in for a rude awakening if he opts out. Either way, I'm not really attached to anyone on this team. Whatever it takes to build a winner is fine with me. I would prefer he stays, but I actually think his market will be strong if he can pitch close to how he has once he returns from his injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 9 hours ago, Tigermojo said: Hopefully they can turn Miggy and Schoop's $40 million salary into a couple good power hitters for next year. A deadline deal isn't realistic but maybe in the offseason some major league hitters can join the team. Josh Harrison and J.D. Martinez are available. 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 9 hours ago, Tigermojo said: There's a lot of free agent starters next year. He might be in for a rude awakening if he opts out. Either way, I'm not really attached to anyone on this team. Whatever it takes to build a winner is fine with me. Would meticulously and painstakingly restructuring the system inside and out, top to bottom, however long it takes, to build a winner be fine with you? Honest question, because I don’t see another way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 16 minutes ago, chasfh said: Josh Harrison and J.D. Martinez are available. 😉 Martinez is no joke joke this year - 6th in the majors in slugging. Of course, you don't want to get stuck with a multi-year deal for a 37 year old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 17 minutes ago, chasfh said: Would meticulously and painstakingly restructuring the system inside and out, top to bottom, however long it takes, to build a winner be fine with you? Honest question, because I don’t see another way. They will have to do that anyway, but they should still try to be competitive in the weak AL central. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 1 minute ago, Tiger337 said: They will have to do that anyway, but they should still try to be competitive in the weak AL central. How do you see that happening? Is it a matter of picking up the right free agent still on the market? Do we trade from system depth for current major leaguers and who? Or, as some here might suggest, does Hinch simply need to start managing better, whatever that looks like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 Just now, chasfh said: How do you see that happening? Is it a matter of picking up the right free agent still on the market? Do we trade from system depth for current major leaguers and who? Or, as some here might suggest, does Hinch simply need to start managing better, whatever that looks like? I don't want to see another five-year re-build where they lose 95+ games every year. I was never on board with that. You always want to be reasonably competitive because you never know when you might sneak into the race in a given year...like this year. Trades and free agents should both be on the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 Just now, Tiger337 said: I don't want to see another five-year re-build where they lose 95+ games every year. I was never on board with that. You always want to be reasonably competitive because you never know when you might sneak into the race in a given year...like this year. Trades and free agents should both be on the table. OK, I’m game. Any specific ideas on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 Just now, chasfh said: OK, I’m game. Any specific ideas on this? Too early. Let's see what they have for pitchers by the end of the year and then add Mize next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 22 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: They will have to do that anyway, but they should still try to be competitive in the weak AL central. this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 13 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Too early. Let's see what they have for pitchers by the end of the year and then add Mize next year. Oh, OK, I misunderstood, I thought you were talking about right now, this year. I hear ya and I'm game as long as they're not dealing the top of the system for mid-level big leaguers in the short term. To be clear, I highly doubt Harris would do that anyway, but speaking just strategically, I myself wouldn't want to see that under anybody. The rest of the team is still too fragile performance-wise, and one piece is not going to make the difference. But if they can find a magic free agent this winter who will give us three-plus wins on something between a 1/10 to 2/25 deal, I want that all day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 8 minutes ago, chasfh said: Oh, OK, I misunderstood, I thought you were talking about right now, this year. I hear ya and I'm game as long as they're not dealing the top of the system for mid-level big leaguers in the short term. To be clear, I highly doubt Harris would do that anyway, but speaking just strategically, I myself wouldn't want to see that under anybody. The rest of the team is still too fragile performance-wise, and one piece is not going to make the difference. But if they can find a magic free agent this winter who will give us three-plus wins on something between a 1/10 to 2/25 deal, I want that all day. Well, they can't acquire free agents now! They could trade prospects for young players already in the majors now, but it would need to somebody that can help them the next couple of years as well. I don't know who is available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 1 hour ago, chasfh said: Would meticulously and painstakingly restructuring the system inside and out, top to bottom, however long it takes, to build a winner be fine with you? Honest question, because I don’t see another way. I understand it could take some time because everyone Avila acquired has some question marks. I'm hopeful Harris can identify talent on a level with teams like Tampa and Baltimore have been able to do. That would significantly reduce the timeline. I'm pretty jaded with Avila's failures on overpriced free agents who don't perform and draft picks who get injured multiple times. Harris' guys have shown some flashes in small samples. McKinstry in May and Vierling in June. The pitchers have been pretty solid. We'll see how he handles the payroll going forward since he was pretty handcuffed by Avila's left overs. Going forward, Miggy will be off the team, so no more excuses for sub par performance. If you are the weakest link, goodbye to Toledo and give someone else a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, chasfh said: Josh Harrison and J.D. Martinez are available. 😉 I was thinking Matt Chapman but I don't know how realistic that is or even if he's worth signing long term. We've been bitten plenty of times on free agent contracts. I do like someone who is good on both offense and defense though. Looking through the rankings I'm trying to ignore Candelario and Paredes. I didn't think Candelario would bounce back but neither did Harris so that's a bit concerning. Edit We had answers at third and second but we let them get away. Edited June 26, 2023 by Tigermojo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted June 26, 2023 Author Share Posted June 26, 2023 2 minutes ago, Tigermojo said: We've been bitten plenty of times on free agent contracts. every team that signs FAs gets bitten eventually 3 minutes ago, Tigermojo said: I didn't think Candelario would bounce back but neither did Harris so that's a bit concerning. nothing is surprising about Candelario's performance, he can put up anything from a 600 to a 800 OPS; moving on from him, even in his walk year when he is extra motivated, was reasonable; not replacing him was the mistake 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 55 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Well, they can't acquire free agents now! They could trade prospects for young players already in the majors now, but it would need to somebody that can help them the next couple of years as well. I don't know who is available. I don't know anybody young and controllable and All-Star-level we could get for any prospects we happen to have now, except maybe if we trade Colt Keith or possibly Jace Jung, and even then I don't think we could get anyone young/controllable/All-Star level for even both of them plus people here would be screaming bloody blue murder about giving up both our blue-chippers in the trade. And even if we could get past all that, do we really think that trade would get us from seventy-something wins to seventy-something-plus-two wins and a Central Division title? I think the odds such a trade would win us a title with sub-.500 record would be one in three digits, easy. I think the only way we get to a title is, the young pitchers come back hard for us, and the hitters we have in house all of a sudden flip a switch. I see that as giving us better odds to play baseball in October this year than making any win-now moves in July. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 34 minutes ago, Tigermojo said: I was thinking Matt Chapman but I don't know how realistic that is or even if he's worth signing long term. We've been bitten plenty of times on free agent contracts. I do like someone who is good on both offense and defense though. Looking through the rankings I'm trying to ignore Candelario and Paredes. I didn't think Candelario would bounce back but neither did Harris so that's a bit concerning. Edit We had answers at third and second but we let them get away. McKinstry had 364 plate trips before coming here and Vierling had 434. Neither were anything like established major leaguers, so we couldn't expect them to come and stabilize the team. Not many people thought Candelario would bounce back, although all the signs pointed right at it, and honestly, I'm not sure Harris thought he was done done at 29, either. It would not surprise me to learn that letting Jeimer go wasn't 100% his decision, and it would also not surprise me to learn that Jeimer did not want to come back to Detroit under any circumstances and/or there were personality issues involved. I would bet if Jeimer were a widget instead of a person, he'd still be here today. Who's the guy at second we let get away, by the way? You don't mean Willi, do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 4 minutes ago, chasfh said: McKinstry had 364 plate trips before coming here and Vierling had 434. Neither were anything like established major leaguers, so we couldn't expect them to come and stabilize the team. Not many people thought Candelario would bounce back, although all the signs pointed right at it, and honestly, I'm not sure Harris thought he was done done at 29, either. It would not surprise me to learn that letting Jeimer go wasn't 100% his decision, and it would also not surprise me to learn that Jeimer did not want to come back to Detroit under any circumstances and/or there were personality issues involved. I would bet if Jeimer were a widget instead of a person, he'd still be here today. Who's the guy at second we let get away, by the way? You don't mean Willi, do you? Paredes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 10 minutes ago, chasfh said: I don't know anybody young and controllable and All-Star-level we could get for any prospects we happen to have now, except maybe if we trade Colt Keith or possibly Jace Jung, and even then I don't think we could get anyone young/controllable/All-Star level for even both of them plus people here would be screaming bloody blue murder about giving up both our blue-chippers in the trade. And even if we could get past all that, do we really think that trade would get us from seventy-something wins to seventy-something-plus-two wins and a Central Division title? I think the odds such a trade would win us a title with sub-.500 record would be one in three digits, easy. I think the only way we get to a title is, the young pitchers come back hard for us, and the hitters we have in house all of a sudden flip a switch. I see that as giving us better odds to play baseball in October this year than making any win-now moves in July. For now, I am thinking more along the lines of a Jo Adell type player (I don't know if it's him, specifically). If Harris is the genius he is purported to be, he should be able to identify break out candidates which he can acquire relatively cheaply. That's what we need to find out about him. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 7 minutes ago, Tigermojo said: Paredes I think Paredes is basically a third baseman who can back up at second in a pinch. He was a starting second baseman in theory only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 6 minutes ago, chasfh said: I think Paredes is basically a third baseman who can back up at second in a pinch. He was a starting second baseman in theory only. I didn't realize he only played 10 innings at second this year. Last year he played quite a bit at second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gilmore Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 1 hour ago, chasfh said: McKinstry had 364 plate trips before coming here and Vierling had 434. Neither were anything like established major leaguers, so we couldn't expect them to come and stabilize the team. Not many people thought Candelario would bounce back, although all the signs pointed right at it, and honestly, I'm not sure Harris thought he was done done at 29, either. It would not surprise me to learn that letting Jeimer go wasn't 100% his decision, and it would also not surprise me to learn that Jeimer did not want to come back to Detroit under any circumstances and/or there were personality issues involved. I would bet if Jeimer were a widget instead of a person, he'd still be here today. Who's the guy at second we let get away, by the way? You don't mean Willi, do you? Could you point out “All the signs that pointed to a bounce back that were right there”? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 1 hour ago, Tigermojo said: I didn't realize he only played 10 innings at second this year. Last year he played quite a bit at second. Brandon Lowe was hurt for most of last year, and Paredes stepped in in a pinch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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