romad1 Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 Two universities in the state of Michigan will play a football game at Noon on Saturday the 30th. Known in the past in the Detroit area as Devil's Night except it will be played at Noon. Michigan and Michigan State both come in undefeated at football this season so the Fox crew will shift from fluffing up seditionists to promoting a noisy broadcast featuring Gus Johnson and Joel Klatt. My kid is in application mode so this is why this comes up. Rankings based on US News and World Report's college rankings of Global Universities. I understand that Michigan exceeded 50,000 last year so these numbers might not be up to date. Tale of the tape https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/university-of-michigan-ann-arbor-170976 Total number of students 43,873 Number of international students 7,551 Total number of academic staff 5,308 Number of international staff 972 Number of undergraduate degrees awarded 7,450 Number of master's degrees awarded 4,677 Number of doctoral degrees awarded 1,556 Number of research only staff 1,835 Number of new undergraduate students 6,826 Number of new master's students 3,470 Number of new doctoral students 1,668 Subject Rankings #9 in Arts and Humanities #13 in Biology and Biochemistry #57 in Biotechnology and Applied Microbiology (tie) #14 in Cardiac and Cardiovascular Systems #26 in Cell Biology #67 in Chemical Engineering #40 in Chemistry #54 in Civil Engineering #12 in Clinical Medicine #10 in Computer Science #10 in Economics and Business #88 in Electrical and Electronic Engineering #23 in Endocrinology and Metabolism #51 in Energy and Fuels (tie) #19 in Engineering #33 in Environment/Ecology #16 in Gastroenterology and Hepatology #66 in Geosciences #33 in Immunology #12 in Infectious Diseases #44 in Materials Science #21 in Mathematics #29 in Mechanical Engineering #43 in Microbiology (tie) #20 in Molecular Biology and Genetics #71 in Nanoscience and Nanotechnology (tie) #44 in Neuroscience and Behavior (tie) #9 in Oncology #19 in Pharmacology and Toxicology #27 in Physics #75 in Plant and Animal Science (tie) #13 in Psychiatry/Psychology #24 in Public, Environmental and Occupational Health #38 in Radiology, Nuclear Medicine and Medical Imaging #6 in Social Sciences and Public Health #30 in Space Science #8 in Surgery (tie) https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/michigan-state-university-171100 Key facts: Total number of students 45,678 Number of international students 7,113 Total number of academic staff 2,755 Number of international staff 672 Number of undergraduate degrees awarded 9,120 Number of master's degrees awarded 2,240 Number of doctoral degrees awarded 1,138 Number of research only staff 511 Number of new undergraduate students 10,346 Number of new master's students 1,578 Number of new doctoral students 1,080 Subject Rankings #22 in Agricultural Sciences #55 in Arts and Humanities (tie) #116 in Biology and Biochemistry #68 in Biotechnology and Applied Microbiology #138 in Cardiac and Cardiovascular Systems #276 in Chemistry (tie) #216 in Clinical Medicine (tie) #63 in Computer Science (tie) #29 in Economics and Business #200 in Electrical and Electronic Engineering (tie) #235 in Energy and Fuels #185 in Engineering (tie) #39 in Environment/Ecology (tie) #196 in Materials Science (tie) #70 in Mathematics (tie) #68 in Microbiology (tie) #186 in Molecular Biology and Genetics (tie) #214 in Nanoscience and Nanotechnology (tie) #166 in Neuroscience and Behavior (tie) #212 in Pharmacology and Toxicology (tie) #80 in Physics (tie) #7 in Plant and Animal Science #72 in Psychiatry/Psychology #158 in Public, Environmental and Occupational Health #48 in Social Sciences and Public Health (tie) #118 in Space Science (tie) #245 in Surgery (tie) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted October 24, 2021 Author Share Posted October 24, 2021 From this it appears that Michigan excels (top 10 in): #9 in Arts and Humanities #10 in Computer Science #9 in Oncology #6 in Social Sciences and Public Health #8 in Surgery (tie) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted October 24, 2021 Author Share Posted October 24, 2021 From this it appears that MSU excels in: #7 in Plant and Animal Science Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted October 24, 2021 Author Share Posted October 24, 2021 I note this with chagrin because this school prides itself on the "Space Bitches" meme #30 in Space Science Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 cow college Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted October 24, 2021 Author Share Posted October 24, 2021 Check this disturbing thing out Ohio State University--Columbus United States|Columbus #16 in Best Universities for Space Science (tie) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted October 24, 2021 Author Share Posted October 24, 2021 Now, I'm curious about the space science ratings. Michigan has the https://cygnss.engin.umich.edu/ satellite program. What helps OSU... this little cube sat is all I'm seeing thus far https://news.osu.edu/ohio-states-first-satellite-prepares-for-launch/ Wonder if OSU bought their ranking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted October 24, 2021 Author Share Posted October 24, 2021 Michigan also benefits from having its historical ties to the Dharma Initiative https://lostpedia.fandom.com/wiki/DHARMA_Initiative 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 (edited) 36 minutes ago, romad1 said: Now, I'm curious about the space science ratings. Michigan has the https://cygnss.engin.umich.edu/ satellite program. What helps OSU... this little cube sat is all I'm seeing thus far https://news.osu.edu/ohio-states-first-satellite-prepares-for-launch/ Wonder if OSU bought their ranking everybody does cube sats. However, interestingly, and not that I make any kind of effort to actually track this stuff so I could be wrong, but my impression has been the UM College of Eng does more cooperative work with OSU than MSU. The Engineers at both schools sharing in common the universal nerd disdain for the jocks. Edited October 24, 2021 by gehringer_2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted October 24, 2021 Author Share Posted October 24, 2021 1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said: everybody does cube sats. Yeah, its sort of a gateway space thing any moderately sized institution can pull off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted October 24, 2021 Author Share Posted October 24, 2021 CYGNSS is a lot more than a cube sat. Its a whole network with a very important function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 (edited) I have no guess what a Michigan win in this game would look like, but I can write the script easily enough for the loss: The M defense plays stoutly through 3 quarters but gives up two home runs, meanwhile the M offense in fits and starts struggles to put up 2 FGs. Finally, down by 8 and time running out, Harbaugh hands the keys to McCarthy, who engineers a brilliant drive to close the gap to 2. Harbaugh elects to go for two and the inevitable trick play call blows up. MSU immediately drives for a FG. M gets the ball back into McCarthy's hands and they rip off 70 of the 80 yards they need to score and the kid throws the INT. MSU 17, M 12. Edited October 24, 2021 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted October 24, 2021 Author Share Posted October 24, 2021 35 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: I have no guess what a Michigan win in this game would look like, but I can write the script easily enough for the loss: The M defense plays stoutly through 3 quarters but gives up two home runs, meanwhile the M offense in fits and starts struggles to put up 2 FGs. Finally, down by 8 and time running out, Harbaugh hands the keys to McCarthy, who engineers a brilliant drive to close the gap to 2. Harbaugh elects to go for two and the inevitable trick play call blows up. MSU immediately drives for a FG. M gets the ball back into McCarthy's hands and they rip off 70 of the 80 yards they need to score and the kid throws the INT. MSU 17, M 12. Negative jinx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 Michigan State 27, Michigan 9. Then Michigan loses to Indiana, Penn State, escapes Maryland with a win and gives up 70 vs. Ohio State. They go to the Living in The Past Bowl vs. Tennessee and Joe Milton torches them. 8-5 season. Harbaugh comes back for another year. Hope I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 9 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said: Michigan State 27, Michigan 9. Then Michigan loses to Indiana, Penn State, escapes Maryland with a win and gives up 70 vs. Ohio State. They go to the Living in The Past Bowl vs. Tennessee and Joe Milton torches them. 8-5 season. Harbaugh comes back for another year. Hope I'm wrong. i dont think they get 70. 65? quite possibly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 US News and World rankings are junk. Though I am intrigued by MSU's fall, they were around #50 ten years ago. Have to imagine it's related to the Nassar fallout. UM 16 MSU 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted October 25, 2021 Author Share Posted October 25, 2021 My wife is a sparty and highly accomplished in life. I think the general quality of education she got plus her own native drive and intellect were fine. My interest in sending my son to a "good school" in the top 100 of whatever category is just scoreboard of his/our success raising him. The ratings are likely just junk like you say. We've been to a couple campuses on our tours. Michigan is a very nice one. UVA also very nice. Some are just utilitarian. In my own story...my terrible HS grades (we are talking Blutarski level gpa here) were mitigated when I finally realized I needed to get going: tested well on the ASVAB, joined the Air Force, got community college going, did well enough in University of Maryland overseas courses in the Air Force, got off active duty and applied for University of Michigan based on my CC and University of Maryland courses. I never had to write any essays or do well on the SAT. I showed up and worked hard because I gave a damn so it worked out for me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 (edited) Come visit William and Mary. Depending on his major I’d say the quality of education is similar to both UVa and U of M. It still has the small town feel (Charlottesville has sprawled out of control in recent years). The sports teams are nothing to write home about, but. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/william-and-mary-3705 Edited October 25, 2021 by CMRivdogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted October 25, 2021 Author Share Posted October 25, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said: Come visit William and Mary. Depending on his major I’d say the quality of education is similar to both UVa and U of M. It still has the small town feel (Charlottesville has sprawled out of control in recent years). The sports teams are nothing to write home about, but. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/william-and-mary-3705 Known among his peers as "Suicide U" for some reason. Its on his list but we haven't visited so it holds lower enthusiasm for him. Edited October 25, 2021 by romad1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 3 hours ago, romad1 said: My wife is a sparty and highly accomplished in life. I think the general quality of education she got plus her own native drive and intellect were fine. My interest in sending my son to a "good school" in the top 100 of whatever category is just scoreboard of his/our success raising him. The ratings are likely just junk like you say. We've been to a couple campuses on our tours. Michigan is a very nice one. UVA also very nice. Some are just utilitarian. In my own story...my terrible HS grades (we are talking Blutarski level gpa here) were mitigated when I finally realized I needed to get going: tested well on the ASVAB, joined the Air Force, got community college going, did well enough in University of Maryland overseas courses in the Air Force, got off active duty and applied for University of Michigan based on my CC and University of Maryland courses. I never had to write any essays or do well on the SAT. I showed up and worked hard because I gave a damn so it worked out for me. As long as one isn't going to a school that is for-profit (think the schools whose students were bailed out of their loans by the Biden admin), you will receive a roughly equal quality of education across the board. With rare exception, it's not like the information being taught about subject matter is fundamentally different between a HYPSM and a "lower tier" state school. Depending on what someone is interested in, any number of schools may make sense for any number of reasons. If you want to do research, a HYPSM is going to have money they don't know what to do with to fund whatever your little heart desires. At the same time, if you have specific interests and those interests are to a 't' met by a professor at Eastern Michigan, that may make more sense for you. This is even before financial considerations. Stanford would not be worth a $50,000 price tag if one is offered a full-ride to Michigan. The ratings have more to do with donors and money (the first bucket I mentioned) than anything else. My own story is that I was very middle-of-the-road in high school. Finished with a 3.2 GPA or so. Went to Oakland Community College and figured out how to do life and school. One Biology course I can remember clearly, I got a D on the first exam and said to myself I was going to apply myself, go get it, and see what happened. Got no less than a 93 on a test the rest of that semester. I applied to transfer to Michigan after a few semesters and they rejected me, citing I didn't have enough credits to say I was the near 4.0 CC student and not the near 3.0 HS student. The following year, 40 more credits under the belt, I applied to ten schools with a 3.95 GPA: Michigan, Michigan State, Harvard, Penn, Vanderbilt, NYU, Columbia, Cornell, Brown, and Stanford. All rejected me except Michigan, MSU, and Stanford, and I decided to go west of the Mississippi River for the first time in my life as I drove out for orientation. I was in a cohort of 26 transfers that class. I wouldn't change anything, I had a great time and did pretty well for myself, graduating with a BA and a 3.88 GPA. But I also believe that a lot of the hype around undergraduate education at those top US schools is just lore and toxic comparison of self vs others than anything else. I don't think I'm any smarter (however you choose to define the word) or better prepared than my colleagues who went to Oakland University or Wayne State. Part of that certainly has to do with my field (majored in Psychology and work in child welfare - if I was a Computer Science guy it would be a different story), but overall, if I were speaking to someone who was making a decision on colleges (for undergrad), fit and comfortability is much more important than pretty arbitrary rankings. /soapbox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 It looks like they had a rough year a while back and there was a disproportionate number of suicides. The school does have a reputation of being a nerd school with not too many parties (unlike that party school in Charlottesville) I should note my spouse is a UVa grad. Class of ‘72 one of the first groups of women to graduate there. She’s done very well. It toughened her up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted October 25, 2021 Author Share Posted October 25, 2021 The kid is into the idea of solving the problem of plastic in the environment. U-Chicago appears to be the one that fits that niche interest very well. I would always be getting asks for things like gallium and other "fun" elements for Christmas. I keep saying that he needs to go to a proper large university because he is also a huge history and writing nerd who would love nothing more than to invent his own RPG system. He is so un-street smart that I'd worry he's be eaten alive by the big school drive to drink yourself to death except he's a very wise kid. Knows what not to eat, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted October 25, 2021 Author Share Posted October 25, 2021 U-Chicago's essay question is pretty fun (paraphrased as): "People say something is as easy as pie, is that so?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted October 25, 2021 Author Share Posted October 25, 2021 Michigan's was something something: "Describe the community you come from and how it will make an impact on Michigan's community" or near enough to that. I told him to reference the TV Show Community Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 (edited) Michigan State is the second Pete from Pete & Pete, the little brother of the show. This is it though for Harbaugh, win and look good doing it and you'll start to rebuild trust among the fan base that wanted you axed, lose and we'll just keep calling for your head. I think Michigan needs to find a way to open up this offense because I don't think they can bully ball their way through the game with running the ball down State's throat. They are going to have to find a way to attack down the field and open up the playbook a little bit. Gattis is going to have to put some wrinkles in his play calls otherwise State is going to stack the box and stop Michigan. I think they are just going to have to place confidence and trust in Cade and let him go downfield more often. Edited October 25, 2021 by Mr.TaterSalad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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