1984Echoes Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 Copp, Compher and Cat are on the team... So move on from the other guys and add Mazur and Kasper. They'll be better at the 2-way game than those removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 36 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: So yes... I get that. It's definitely a risk... but a couple things: 1) When we signed Perron at 34, wasn't that chasing past production? Petry at 35? 2) He has a higher level of capability than Sprong or Perron. And it's not even close. 3) He also has more ability than Copp or Compher. They've never produced as he has, and they have never played at his level. But all 3 of those guys are the same age: 29. And Yzerman signed Copp and Compher... As far as I'm concerned... Lindholm is next. Or should be. 4) We're letting go of (most likely) Reimer 36, Kane 35, Perron 35, Gost 30... I think we need to replace that veteran leadership... with Lindholm. I'll be more blunt: This offseason, for me... It's Lindholm or BUST!!! dude, compher outproduced lindholm THIS YEAR! what do you mean he's never outproduced lindholm. i think you like the idea of what lindholm was 2 years ago when he was playing on a stacked calgary team going up against second lines rather than what he actually is now. its like debrincat. everybody gets wrapped up in him scoring 40 goals, but take him away from patrick kane in his prime and he's what he was this year: a decently fast winger with an ok scoring touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 38 minutes ago, buddha said: dude, compher outproduced lindholm THIS YEAR! what do you mean he's never outproduced lindholm... Yeah... I probably stated that badly... I meant Compher at his best has never produced like Lindholm at his best. Compher tops out as a 50-point guy. Once. Lindholm in a BAD year gets 44. They're not in the same ballpark, and you KNOW that. But I did state that badly. And you very well may be right, I love the idea of Lindholm 2 years ago. But the flip side is that... Lindholm has actually produced at that level. And if he's a 2nd line Center on the Red Wings then he WOULD go against 2nd lines. And that's how he would be signed. Also... if Larkin went down another two weeks... I would actually have confidence that Lindholm could hold the fort down rather than the team imploding for the two weeks that Larkin misses. Additionally, with young talent on this team (Lindholm centering Kasper and Raymond? Cat? Compher?), I have some hope that an actual effective 2nd line could be created. Both ways. So... Sorry guys... But I'm stuck on Lindholm... And I'm only going to get worse... It's Lindholm or BUST!!! And I haven't even got to using font size 36 yet... But I WILL get to 36 pt sometime in the near future. Lindholm or BUST!!! (That will be on repeat, and keep getting louder, until Yzerman actually signs him...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 i'll be kind of upset if they spend big money on elias lindholm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 14 minutes ago, buddha said: i'll be kind of upset if they spend big money on elias lindholm. IDK, Yzerman probably just blowing smoke at the presser -- love to bring back Ghost, Kane etc. If any of that happens there isn't money for anyone who's going to have impact. With Yzerman's FO we will know exactly nothing until it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 Interesting to see SY call out the coaching staff on team defense. Also Lalonde hinted that he pushed SY to promote players and SY claimed not to know what Lalonde was talking about. I read this as Lalonde squirming a bit and SY discreetly telling Lalonde he has one year to get team defense right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 7 minutes ago, Jason_R said: Interesting to see SY call out the coaching staff on team defense. Also Lalonde hinted that he pushed SY to promote players and SY claimed not to know what Lalonde was talking about. I read this as Lalonde squirming a bit and SY discreetly telling Lalonde he has one year to get team defense right. I think Lalonde has a beef in that part of the problem on defense is that their puck pursuit needs an injection of speed/energy and maybe younger legs would be an upgrade in that direction. Young players make mistake that often lead very obviously to goals, but that can't be the only thing you look at because the goal that doesn't get scored because your player beat the opponent to a lose puck at the half board in the D zone is never tallied. OR, to accomplish the same thing, Lalonde has to get his players playing as mad as Scotty used to......😡 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said: I think Lalonde has a beef in that part of the problem on defense is that their puck pursuit needs an injection of speed/energy and maybe younger legs would be an upgrade in that direction. Young players make mistake that often lead very obviously to goals, but that can't be the only thing you look at because the goal that doesn't get scored because your player beat the opponent to a lose puck at the half board in the D zone is never tallied. OR, to accomplish the same thing, Lalonde has to get his players playing as mad as Scotty used to......😡 Agree. It just seemed reckless of Lalonde to say he had pushed SY to promote players faster. He won’t win any fights with SY and he is in no position to be picking them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 3 minutes ago, Jason_R said: Agree. It just seemed reckless of Lalonde to say he had pushed SY to promote players faster. He won’t win any fights with SY and he is in no position to be picking them. Could well be. Of course we don't know much about what kind of terms they are on. Every coach and GM must talk about call-ups but Yzerman maintains such an opaque front that I guess the transparency to admit even the obvious is too far for him to go. SY is an interesting study. He has this kind of earnestness and approachability but it hides a very sophisticated ability to answer any question apparently thoughtfully without ever giving away a scrap of anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothfacekilla Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 Kinda reads like he's coming back but is also pretty ambiguous...not sure what to make of it after his press conference at the end of the season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 4 minutes ago, slothfacekilla said: Kinda reads like he's coming back but is also pretty ambiguous...not sure what to make of it after his press conference at the end of the season He's coming back right up the moment that another team offers him more years than Yzerman is willing to. It is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 9 minutes ago, slothfacekilla said: Kinda reads like he's coming back but is also pretty ambiguous...not sure what to make of it after his press conference at the end of the season He’s not coming back. He played this year to show the league that he could come back from a difficult injury at his age and still be productive. He did just that and will now have his pick of cup contenders to choose from. Maybe even someone like a Buffalo, who’s not a cup contender but is dumb enough to overpay and term for him. Stevie is too smart do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 Yeah... My "doubt Kane comes back to the Wings" level is up to about 98% now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothfacekilla Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 I'm fine if he does walk honestly. I feel like some team will overpay for him if that's the route he wants to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 6 minutes ago, slothfacekilla said: I'm fine if he does walk honestly. I feel like some team will overpay for him if that's the route he wants to go. The only downside in the situation is if he walks but the decision comes late and the Wings miss a chance to spend the cap space waiting on him. But I have to believe that if a deal Yzerman wants to make comes up he's not to pass waiting for Kane to make a decision that is likely to go against the Wings anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordstanley Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 I worry about the offense if the Wing lose both Ghost and Kane. Sign Ghost, let Kane walk, sign another goal scorer. Any 30 year old out there who is coming off an injury or somewhat down year who would sign a 1 or 2 year deal to prove himself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 7 minutes ago, lordstanley said: ... Sign Ghost... We'll have WAY too many LH'ed D'men. Ghost. Edvinsson. Chiarot. Walman. Maatta. And we'll lose Albert Johansson on waivers if he doesn't make next year's team. And the Org actually LIKES him so... How do we clear that up? Ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 9 minutes ago, lordstanley said: I worry about the offense if the Wing lose both Ghost and Kane. Sign Ghost, let Kane walk, sign another goal scorer. Any 30 year old out there who is coming off an injury or somewhat down year who would sign a 1 or 2 year deal to prove himself? My read would be that the odds of Ghost coming back are higher and deal will get done there quickly if it's going to happen. Yzerman seemed to speak very enthusiastically about having the mix of defensive talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 IMO: Ghost has to walk. With Edvinsson and Walman as prospective top 2 LH'ed D (this is only my opinion): I want Chiarot moved. That still leaves: Walman, Edvinsson as top 2. Maatta as 3rd pairing. A decision to make on Johansson (does he replace Ghost and become 3rd pair with Maatta as 4th); and still Wallinder & Buium in Grand Rapids. Uncertainties: Not certain how much the Org loves Johansson; but I thought they really high on him. Although they were saying the same thing about Sebrango. Will they find a spot on the roster for him... or just move on, one way or the other? Can the Org live with Chiarot as 3rd pair, with his salary and commitment? Or do they clear space and use Maatta as 3rd pair? Or: vice verse and trade Maatta? Or keep Chiarot as 3rd and Maatta 4th (both under contract) and just let go of Johansson? I think the Org just moves on from Ghost. IMO. On all the other questions Enquiring minds want to know (answers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 5 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: IMO: Ghost has to walk. With Edvinsson and Walman as prospective top 2 LH'ed D (this is only my opinion): I want Chiarot moved. That still leaves: Walman, Edvinsson as top 2. Maatta as 3rd pairing. A decision to make on Johansson (does he replace Ghost and become 3rd pair with Maatta as 4th); and still Wallinder & Buium in Grand Rapids. Uncertainties: Not certain how much the Org loves Johansson; but I thought they really high on him. Although they were saying the same thing about Sebrango. Will they find a spot on the roster for him... or just move on, one way or the other? Can the Org live with Chiarot as 3rd pair, with his salary and commitment? Or do they clear space and use Maatta as 3rd pair? Or: vice verse and trade Maatta? Or keep Chiarot as 3rd and Maatta 4th (both under contract) and just let go of Johansson? I think the Org just moves on from Ghost. IMO. On all the other questions Enquiring minds want to know (answers). and you have to move or buy out Petry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 (edited) One of the challenges they are going to face is a surplus of NHL ready young defenseman. This isn’t an issue when you are still in full rebuild mode but you can’t expect to compete for the playoffs with 4 young defenseman. You also can’t expect them to learn the nuance of playing proper defense in the NHL by watching each other and listening to coaches. They need to be paired with a veteran. This is where they are going to have to keep an extra vet around even though the kids are better players and a bigger part of the future. Edited April 25 by Hongbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 5 minutes ago, Hongbit said: One of the challenges they are going to face is a surplus of NHL ready young defenseman. This isn’t an issue when you are still in full rebuild mode but you can’t expect to compete for the playoffs with 4 young defenseman. You also can’t expect them to learn the nuance of playing proper defense in the NHL by watching each other and listening to coaches. They need to be paired with a veteran. This is where they are going to have to keep an extra vet around even though the kids are better players and a bigger part of the future. I don't disagree except that I wouldn't put Seider in that group anymore. They'll want to pair up Edvinsson and Johansson with vets - assuming the later makes the team. Do they still have another year with Wallinder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 they made their own problems by trading for petry, extending maata, and signing holl. there was no reason to do all three with all the defensemen they had on the cusp of coming up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 40 minutes ago, buddha said: they made their own problems by trading for petry, extending maata, and signing holl. there was no reason to do all three with all the defensemen they had on the cusp of coming up. getting through the season without a significant injury to a Dman was an outlier outcome. Just do not want to see Petry back on the ice. If he has that much wisdom to offer make him an offer to retire into a coaching gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothfacekilla Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 16 hours ago, lordstanley said: I worry about the offense if the Wing lose both Ghost and Kane. Sign Ghost, let Kane walk, sign another goal scorer. Any 30 year old out there who is coming off an injury or somewhat down year who would sign a 1 or 2 year deal to prove himself? The Wings actually scored more goals per game without Kane in the lineup than with him in the lineup (and gave up a lot less goals against) though this does include the stretch without Larkin which is probably more of a driving force than Kane being in the lineup. But something I definitely found interesting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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