Week Five: Detroit Lions (3-1) @ Cincinnati Bengals (2-2)

[sagnam]

3 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

Agreed. The Eagles are a very solidly team. Losing to Denver doesn't take away from the fact that they are a well coached team that has a very good roster. And Barkley....😅

Denver is solid too. Their defense is great and their offense is good. That’s not to say the Eagles have looked good. They’ve won ugly a lot. But at the end of the year a win is a win and good teams find ways to win. The Lions are good too.

 

That being said, the line really struggled without Decker. Of course they looked bad week 1 and that got cleaned up so who really knows if whatever Manu was doing is correctable or not. The Brown’s defensive line is elite and the line held up just fine against them. After week 1 not many would have been sure that would be the case. I think the Lions will figure something out, but it’s not out of the realm of possibility that tackle depth could be an issue this year.

 

Don’t forget that almost every DB is hurt in some form. Even Branch has had to come out for a few plays this year.

[sagnam]

4 hours ago, RedRamage said:

 

 

I think both of you need to take a small step back here. Nothing wrong with spirited debate but we're very, very close to crossing the line into insults here.

No problem. For the record I’m sorry for my part. It’s been a day. No excuses though. I’ll do better.

[sagnam]

Hey @Motown Bombers, I’m legit sorry for being a jerk. You have every right to gloat. You have been consistent in your stance and I do respect you for backing Goff when most were skeptical.

[Sports_Freak]

3 hours ago, sagnam said:

Denver is solid too. Their defense is great and their offense is good. That’s not to say the Eagles have looked good. They’ve won ugly a lot. But at the end of the year a win is a win and good teams find ways to win. The Lions are good too.

 

That being said, the line really struggled without Decker. Of course they looked bad week 1 and that got cleaned up so who really knows if whatever Manu was doing is correctable or not. The Brown’s defensive line is elite and the line held up just fine against them. After week 1 not many would have been sure that would be the case. I think the Lions will figure something out, but it’s not out of the realm of possibility that tackle depth could be an issue this year.

 

Don’t forget that almost every DB is hurt in some form. Even Branch has had to come out for a few plays this year.

Think it's possible that the Lions may have just rested Decker because they were playing Cincy? I know...any given Sunday but it's wasn't even as close as the score ended up and we easily covered the 10 point spread. Hopefully he'll use the week of rest to get healthy.

[RandyMarsh]

Campbell's in game decision making goes vastly underappreciated as well, is he flawless? No but all the metrics point to him being one of if not the most valuable coach in the league in that regard. He's far more than just a motivator like people think. 

Also we still don't know how much Campbell and the coaching staff he has brought in has influenced the draft picks and/or development of said picks. I love Brad but he shouldn't get all the credit for how well the players have turned out, many of the hits very well may have been busts with a different person leading them or may have not even been drafted if not for Campbell.

You see in those behind the scenes videos Brad always sitting side by side with Campbell and talking with him about how he feels about a player, basically using him as his consigliere. 

Edited October 7 by RandyMarsh

[MichiganCardinal]

 

 

Monty's TD throw from yesterday.

Edited October 7 by MichiganCardinal

[MichiganCardinal]

 

 

(One of) Browning's picks from yesterday

[RedRamage]

8 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

 

 

(One of) Browning's picks from yesterday

Just out of curiosity, how were the opposing fans to you?

[holygoat]

12 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Campbell's in game decision making goes vastly underappreciated as well, is he flawless? No but all the metrics point to him being one of if not the most valuable coach in the league in that regard. He's far more than just a motivator like people think. 

Also we still don't know how much Campbell and the coaching staff he has brought in has influenced the draft picks and/or development of said picks. I love Brad but he shouldn't get all the credit for how well the players have turned out, many of the hits very well may have been busts with a different person leading them or may have not even been drafted if not for Campbell.

You see in those behind the scenes videos Brad always sitting side by side with Campbell and talking with him about how he feels about a player, basically using him as his consigliere. 

I can't believe that we still have people writing Campbell off as just a motivator or a rah-rah coach. I mean, it's cool by me, because that means they're underestimating him.

[sagnam]

12 minutes ago, holygoat said:

I can't believe that we still have people writing Campbell off as just a motivator or a rah-rah coach. I mean, it's cool by me, because that means they're underestimating him.

We do? I haven’t heard that in a long time. Maybe I’m missing something.

[RandyMarsh]

3 minutes ago, sagnam said:

We do? I haven’t heard that in a long time. Maybe I’m missing something.

There was just a post that I responded to that said Schwartz could've possibly had similar success if he had the players Holmes got for Campbell and cited their similar demeanors as a reason why. 

Maybe I took that the wrong way but to me that sounds like by comparing him to another "rah rah coach" that is what you are implying Campbell is. 

[Sports_Freak]

3 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

There was just a post that I responded to that said Schwartz could've possibly had similar success if he had the players Holmes got for Campbell and cited their similar demeanors as a reason why. 

Maybe I took that the wrong way but to me that sounds like by comparing him to another "rah rah coach" that is what you are implying Campbell is. 

I didn't say Schwartz would have similar success as Campbell. I said he would have been a much better coach with all the talent Brad got for Campbell. But yeah, my memory of Schwartz was him throwing a challenge flag on a play that was going to be reviewed anyway. A play that would have gone the Lions way if he would have just waited for the process to play out. But since he illegally threw the challenge flag, an incorrect call stood and we were flagged for a 15 yard penalty. It cost us the game and as head coach, he should have known the rules.

[gehringer_2]

8 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

There was just a post that I responded to that said Schwartz could've possibly had similar success if he had the players Holmes got for Campbell and cited their similar demeanors as a reason why. 

Maybe I took that the wrong way but to me that sounds like by comparing him to another "rah rah coach" that is what you are implying Campbell is. 

Schwartz's Lions teams were undisciplined. That could. be who you are drafting to a certain extant also, but it's usually just poor coaching.

[RedRamage]

I don't think Schwartz is a "rah-rah" guy at all. He was supposed to be pretty football smart if I recall correctly. He is a bit hot headed imho, which doesn't strike me as Campbell's style really, but I think the comment was more about Schwartz with a talented roster may have done much better than with the roster he got... just like I think Campbell's success is in-part because of the roster he has.

The truth of the matter is that football is perhaps the most team sport of any of the big popular sports. A great DL makes secondaries look better, and a fantastic secondary makes the DL look better. An wonderful OL makes even run of the mill RBs successful. A great decision maker and accurate passer elevates WRs and amazing WR make QB's jobs easier.

And coaching is no different. A great coach gets more out of his/her team and players... an awesome roster makes coach easier. Which is why all the talk of "is player x just a product of system y" somewhat silly... and more so as soon as Goff player x has show he can excel in system y, z, and w. 

[MichiganCardinal]

3 hours ago, RedRamage said:

Just out of curiosity, how were the opposing fans to you?

Super kind. I’m the type to pretty actively avoid confrontation in those situations, but nobody even approached me negatively.

When Jake Browning is your QB and the spread is double digits, they knew what they were dealing with coming in. Some of them were even like “you know it’s not as ugly as I expected it might be”

[gehringer_2]

6 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

I don't think Schwartz is a "rah-rah" guy at all. He was supposed to be pretty football smart if I recall correctly. He is a bit hot headed imho, which doesn't strike me as Campbell's style really

I'm going to guess the big difference in terms of nuts and bolts coaching, is that from all we have heard, and what we see on the field, Campbell is a guy that hammers all the little details harder than the average coach. That leads to more precise execution, (and fewer flags) and that maximizes the value of your talent. At least at the point where Schwartz was when he was here he was not at Campbell's level in that area.

[RedRamage]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

I'm going to guess the big difference in terms of nuts and bolts coaching, is that from all we have heard, and what we see on the field, Campbell is a guy that hammers all the little details harder than the average coach. That leads to more precise execution, (and fewer flags) and that maximizes the value of your talent. At least at the point where Schwartz was when he was here he was not at Campbell's level in that area.

Oh it's not even that Schwartz wasn't at the point Campbell is... Schwartz didn't care about the fundamentals in that way at all. He at least gave off the impression that penalties, to a certain extent, didn't matter. He was okay with some offsides penalties, for example, if it meant his rushers were being super aggressive.

[MichiganCardinal]

There are definitely parallels between Schwartz and Campbell.

The difference is that Schwartz was reckless. Campbell is just aggressive.

[1984Echoes]

22 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

... but the coaching brain drain from the Lions was a thing all off season by ...

Quit living in the past.

[Hongbit]

I’m not sure I’ve seen more of a Campbell parallel than what we are seeing from Liam Coen.    It’s like he’s studying Campbell and just following the playbook all the way from the awkward opening presser to what he said last night after the win.    
 

 

[gehringer_2]

13 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Campbell is just aggressive

I think that is/was right. But then again, I don't know if he's even so much aggressive as that he understands how high the single play success rate is for the team he has on the field. The narrative is in large part about 4th down, but when you have Penei Sewell, two great backs and a QB that probably completes at an +80 clip in the short game, 4th and short is not as risky as conventional football wisdom would have it. It's less aggression than knowing what you have and a good understanding of the probabilities. And I wouldn't underestimate Goff's role. He has at least as much confidence and aggression as his coach.

Edited October 7 by gehringer_2

[MichiganCardinal]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

I don't know if he's even so much aggressive as that he understands how high the single play success rate is for the team he has on the field. The narrative is in large part about 4th down, but when you have Penei Sewell, two great backs and a QB that probably completes at an +80 clip in the short game, 4th and short is not as risky as conventional football wisdom. It's less aggression than knowing what you have and a good understanding of the probabilities. And I wouldn't underestimate Goff's role. He has at least as much confidence and aggression as his coach.

I agree. It’s smart, contained aggression.

He punted on 4/6 in Bengals’ territory Sunday, because he knew his opponent. On Thanksgiving against the Packers, that might be a different decision. He knows what he’s got, he knows his opponents, and he believes in his guys.

Edited October 7 by MichiganCardinal

[Motown Bombers]

1 minute ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I agree. It’s smart, contained aggression.

He punted on 4/6 in his own territory against the Bengals, because he knew his opponent. On Thanksgiving against the Packers, that might be a different decision. He knows what he’s got, he knows his opponents, and he believes in his guys.

Remember last year against the Packers when they ran in 4th and short to bleed the clock and then kick the FG? He told the team the offense was going to need to win this one and would be unfair to put it on the defense with all the injuries. 

[sagnam]

1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

There was just a post that I responded to that said Schwartz could've possibly had similar success if he had the players Holmes got for Campbell and cited their similar demeanors as a reason why. 

Maybe I took that the wrong way but to me that sounds like by comparing him to another "rah rah coach" that is what you are implying Campbell is. 

Oh, yeah. I didn’t not mean to make that association. I actually think Schwartz has a really good football mind, very similar to Campbell. His issues were emotional regulation in my opinion. That is not something Campbell suffers from and that was the only comparison I was trying to make.

[sagnam]

1 hour ago, Hongbit said:

I’m not sure I’ve seen more of a Campbell parallel than what we are seeing from Liam Coen.    It’s like he’s studying Campbell and just following the playbook all the way from the awkward opening presser to what he said last night after the win.    
 

 

Interestingly, he just got into an altercation on the field postgame with another coach. I read a story around that that said Coen has a short fuse. That is very much what I think Schwartz suffered from and like Schwartz it can actually work short term. The issue is it breeds a style similar to what has been said above, reckless, undisciplined, etc. That’s not something you want creeping into the culture.

So Coen is probably Schwartz Jr. They both somewhat resemble Campbell, but are missing that pure leadership.