2026 MLB (Non-Tigers) Thread

[Edman85]

24 minutes ago, Shelton said:

At the same time, these guys are frequently reminding themselves of the game situation prior to almost every pitch, so it’s understandable that a quick glance at the scoreboard to see 2 outs listed and your brain instantly flicks over to “go on any contact not in front of you.” Even when he should have known from the previous play, there is enough going on that he could have started second guessing himself and thinking he forgot an earlier out. 
 

Also, that throw in from CF wasn’t the most urgent (not that it had to be, but still). The pitcher and catcher also thought there were two outs. Of all the players involved on the field (9 fielders and three batter/runners), I do wonder how many thought in that moment that there was 1 out and how many thought there there were two. We know for sure four of them (two runners and two fielders) thought there were 2 outs. 
 

I think what this illustrates is that the players on the field are likely checking the scoreboards constantly to remind themselves of the game state. 
 

My question is why didn’t any of the fielders or the team know enough to stay on the field and get the 4th out?

Schneider and Scherzer said the umpire waved them off, but the video seems to refute that, and managers have a history of losing umpire explanations in translation. I think they thought, like the announcers erroneously did, that the out at first nullified the run, which it doesn't, so didn't bother.

Weird play, but they got the call right in the end, even if the home plate umpire made have messed up the mechanics. You could tell Scherzer knew the rule in the dugout. I searched for past fourth out plays, and it happened to the Diamondbacks when he was there.

Edited August 11 by Edman85

[RatkoVarda]

if the guy at 3rd tagged up and scored before the ball got to 1st, then the run would count?

but that did not happen, and the Jays should have stayed on the field and challenged the run scoring, even though they got the third out at 1st?

i think they got it correct, but still not sure i understand

[Shelton]

13 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Schneider and Scherzer said the umpire waved them off, but the video seems to refute that, and managers have a history of losing umpire explanations in translation. I think they thought, like the announcers erroneously did, that the out at first nullified the run, which it doesn't, so didn't bother.

Weird play, but they got the call right in the end, even if the home plate umpire made have messed up the mechanics. You could tell Scherzer knew the rule in the dugout. I searched for past fourth out plays, and it happened to the Diamondbacks when he was there.

Yeah I’m not sure I buy the “waved them off explanation”. But let’s say it did happen. The defense is standing on the field saying “we have to get the fourth out” and the umpire assures them they do not. It seems like in that case, as with other replays where players to be placed back where they should be, that the umpires should have placed the defense back in position and allowed them to complete the fourth out technicality. Much like a batter giving himself up after a dropped third, the runner from third gave himself up when he crossed home and returned to the dugout himself. If he starts scrambling and running back toward third, defense could have easily thrown back to third to get the fourth out as it was happening. 
 

if the umpires messed up in a rule interpretation they should be able to fix it in a situation like this. 

[Sports_Freak]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

The CF threw the ball into 2nd, he seemed to know there weren't 3 outs. OF's are supposed to give the ball away on a 3rd out.

The really unbelievable one is the runner at 3rd. He had to know it had not been a DP because he would have been the 2nd out.

Also both the 1st base coach and 3rd base coach should have reminded the runners how many were out. It's like...their job.

[chasfh]

43 minutes ago, Shelton said:

My question is why didn’t any of the fielders or the team know enough to stay on the field and get the 4th out?

Perhaps because not everyone on the Jays understood that there was only one out when the play started? Even the pitcher and catcher thought there were already two outs. If the defensive team were completely tuned in to how many outs there were and knew the hitting team was not, the throw might have gone to ann occupied base instead. As it as, the CF lazily (and in confusion?) tossed it in to second, instead of either third or first for the bag tag and double play completion. So even he seemed to be confused about it. There may not have even been a fielder at either first or third available to take the throw. As such, no one seemed to be cognizant of a “fourth out” opportunity. And by the time it occurred to anyone, all the players were off the field once they realized the third out was recorded.

[Shelton]

5 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

if the guy at 3rd tagged up and scored before the ball got to 1st, then the run would count?

but that did not happen, and the Jays should have stayed on the field and challenged the run scoring, even though they got the third out at 1st?

i think they got it correct, but still not sure i understand

They 100% got it correct if the defense indeed left the field on their own and didn’t get the fourth out. 
 

Yes, had he simply tagged and then crossed the plate before the runner was doubled off, the run would count. In this case, because they didn’t make a play back to third base, there was no call for the umpires to make, so it was effectively as if he had correctly tagged up. 

[Shelton]

Just now, chasfh said:

Perhaps because not everyone on the Jays understood that there was only one out when the play started? Even the pitcher and catcher thought there were already two outs. If the defensive team were completely tuned in to how many outs there were and knew the hitting team was not, the throw might have gone to ann occupied base instead. As it as, the CF lazily (and in confusion?) tossed it in to second, instead of either third or first for the bag tag and double play completion. So even he seemed to be confused about it. There may not have even been a fielder at either first or third available to take the throw. As such, no one seemed to be cognizant of a “fourth out” opportunity. And by the time it occurred to anyone, all the players were off the field once they realized the third out was recorded.

Yes, this is what I’m saying. The defense was misunderstanding, just like the runners. All it needed was one guy on defense to point out the situation and keep their guys on the field. How could not one guy have been aware of what happened, especially since they did go through with getting the third out? That to me implies that the defense didn’t actually understand the rule (and in that case they deserve to have the run against).

If they did know the rule and the umpires assured them otherwise that it was fine to leave, then the umpires should have stepped up and fixed it. 

[chasfh]

7 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

if the guy at 3rd tagged up and scored before the ball got to 1st, then the run would count?

but that did not happen, and the Jays should have stayed on the field and challenged the run scoring, even though they got the third out at 1st?

i think they got it correct, but still not sure i understand

Only if the Jays do not appeal afterwards. In the absence of the appeal, the out at first base would be the recorded third out and the run would count as scored, provided he crossed the plate before the out made at first base. However, if the Jays had then appealed successfully to third base, then that out would take precedence over the out at first, wiping that one off the books as though it never happened, and the appealed out at third would become the technical recoded third out.

[4hzglory]

13 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Also both the 1st base coach and 3rd base coach should have reminded the runners how many were out. It's like...their job.

It appears they told the runners to go on contact like there were 2 outs.  It is baffling how many appeared to have not known how many outs there truly were.

[NorthWoods]

Mize pitched well last night.....but still.

 

[gehringer_2]

I can almost believe players just assuming the scoreboard was correct in a no-one on situation, but both those runners only got to where they were because the previous play was NOT a DP. How do you forget how you got to your base in 30 seconds?  

Well, no-one ever said baseball players are the sharpest tools in the shed.

🙄

[monkeytargets39]

The most confusing thing about the whole situation is that Scherzer was healthy

[oblong]

The game moves fast.  Especially for participants who are thinking about a lot of things.  Seems like everybody got it wrong.  Some thoughts you delegate and if coaches are saying 2 outs you hear it but don't process it enough to double check because you are checking the fielders and pitcher, etc.  

I blame the pitch clock.  No time to think.

 

[Shelton]

37 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I can almost believe players just assuming the scoreboard was correct in a no-one on situation, but both those runners only got to where they were because the previous play was NOT a DP. How do you forget how you got to your base in 30 seconds?  

Well, no-one ever said baseball players are the sharpest tools in the shed.

🙄

Well, the previous play (that only got one out) occurred with zero outs, obviously. But there had been men on first and second prior to the zero outs play. So maybe when they saw two outs on the scoreboard after the play, the thought was “huh, I must have missed the leadoff guy making an out three batters ago”. 
 

I really don’t think it is that hard to believe that they thought there were two outs due to the scoreboard. Just because one out was made on the play prior doesn’t mean that a second out couldn’t have happened earlier. You’re standing on the base. The inning is still alive. The scoreboard says two outs. 

[chasfh]

3 minutes ago, Shelton said:

I really don’t think it is that hard to believe that they thought there were two outs due to the scoreboard. Just because one out was made on the play prior doesn’t mean that a second out couldn’t have happened earlier. You’re standing on the base. The inning is still alive. The scoreboard says two outs. 

Exactly, and scoreboards agree with the umpires practically all the time, so it's easy to use scoreboards as a proxy for confirming how many outs there are. I would bet there are big league players who have done so their entire careers and never gotten burned on it even once.

These guys will never forget, though.

[4hzglory]

11 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Exactly, and scoreboards agree with the umpires practically all the time, so it's easy to use scoreboards as a proxy for confirming how many outs there are. I would bet there are big league players who have done so their entire careers and never gotten burned on it even once.

These guys will never forget, though.

And I thought I read it was actually announced over the PA as 2 outs.  If that was the case, it makes it even more logical.  But no excuses, especially for the base coaches.

[Sports_Freak]

1 hour ago, NorthWoods said:

Mize pitched well last night.....but still.

 

Small sample sizes are fun.

[gehringer_2]

39 minutes ago, Shelton said:

Well, the previous play (that only got one out) occurred with zero outs, obviously. But there had been men on first and second prior to the zero outs play. So maybe when they saw two outs on the scoreboard after the play, the thought was “huh, I must have missed the leadoff guy making an out three batters ago”. 
 

I really don’t think it is that hard to believe that they thought there were two outs due to the scoreboard. Just because one out was made on the play prior doesn’t mean that a second out couldn’t have happened earlier. You’re standing on the base. The inning is still alive. The scoreboard says two outs. 

IDK - scoreboards are slow or late a lot of the time. The players are supposed to be keeping track themselves after every out. You either have your head in the game or you don't. I'm sure there are a lot of guys who just check the scoreboards. That's a lot of guys who shouldn't be. 🙄

Edited August 11 by gehringer_2

[NorthWoods]

40 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Small sample sizes are fun.

Especially when they favor what you want to see.

[Sports_Freak]

51 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

IDK - scoreboards are slow or late a lot of the time. The players are supposed to be keeping track themselves after every out. You either have your head in the game or you don't. I'm sure there are a lot of guys who just check the scoreboards. That's a lot of guys who shouldn't be. 🙄

IDK...I still say it goes back on the coaches. Its their job to make sure players acknowledge the situations. The manager should have both the 3rd base and 1st base coaches explain themselves 

[oblong]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Exactly, and scoreboards agree with the umpires practically all the time, so it's easy to use scoreboards as a proxy for confirming how many outs there are. I would bet there are big league players who have done so their entire careers and never gotten burned on it even once.

These guys will never forget, though.

Remember AJ Pierzynski in the 2005 Playoffs when he ran to 1B after the catcher rolled the ball back to the P, thinking he just recorded the 3rd out?  AJ figured the ball may have glanced the ground and trapped on the swing and miss 3rd strike?   He said that happened to him as a C.  He didn't forget.  And he gamed it to his advantage.  

I never hated him as a player and he's great as a broadcaster.

 

[Shelton]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

IDK - scoreboards are slow or late a lot of the time. The players are supposed to be keeping track themselves after every out. You either have your head in the game or you don't. I'm sure there are a lot of guys who just check the scoreboards. That's a lot of guys who shouldn't be. 🙄

Are you really digging in on this? Players are supposed to be aware of the game situation and game state, and I think I would rather they use the objective data right in front of them that is accurate 99.9% of the time to know what the game state is, rather than relying on memory of the series of plays that came before. When every person of the field appears to have thought there were two outs as that play was unfolding, I think your expectation of what is expected from these players isn’t aligned with what the players themselves are taught. 
 

Seriously, you think scoreboards at the ballpark are slow to update? Those things are damn near instantaneous.

[chasfh]

29 minutes ago, oblong said:

Remember AJ Pierzynski in the 2005 Playoffs when he ran to 1B after the catcher rolled the ball back to the P, thinking he just recorded the 3rd out?  AJ figured the ball may have glanced the ground and trapped on the swing and miss 3rd strike?   He said that happened to him as a C.  He didn't forget.  And he gamed it to his advantage.  

I never hated him as a player and he's great as a broadcaster.

 

Yes, and I was there for that one, too! We didn't know what was happening until he finally got to first. It was soo cool to see something like that so live.

[gehringer_2]

11 minutes ago, Shelton said:

Are you really digging in on this? Players are supposed to be aware of the game situation and game state, and I think I would rather they use the objective data right in front of them that is accurate 99.9% of the time to know what the game state is, rather than relying on memory of the series of plays that came before. When every person of the field appears to have thought there were two outs as that play was unfolding, I think your expectation of what is expected from these players isn’t aligned with what the players themselves are taught. 
 

Seriously, you think scoreboards at the ballpark are slow to update? Those things are damn near instantaneous.

I've been at COPA when the ball and strike count was either slow or wrong. And there is no 'digging' here at all, I don't even know where you are coming from with that. But ask any player, manager, coach if a player should know how many out there are without looking at the scoreboard and report back when you find the one who doesn't agree.

[Shelton]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

I've been at COPA when the ball and strike count was either slow or wrong. And there is no 'digging' here at all, I don't even know where you are coming from with that. But ask any player, manager, coach if a player should know how many out there are without looking at the scoreboard and report back when you find the one who doesn't agree.

Just because every player would say on the record that they “should” know the game situation without looking at the scoreboard doesn’t change the reality that nearly every one of those players in practice is constantly looking at the scoreboard, as evidenced by a dozen players all thinking the third out had been made by the CF yesterday. 
 

You cannot possibly be suggesting that players are expected to not reference any other data source (scoreboard, teammate, coach, etc.) other than their own recollection to know the count, score, and number of outs at all times. That’s not a question, by the way. My point is where does one draw the line as to when a player should stop consulting those sources and rely on their gut.

I’ll report back with my findings as soon as you report back with evidence of the COPA scoreboard having the balls and strikes wrong. 
 

And yes, I’m digging in on my position. Players rely on the scoreboard.