05/24/2026 6:05p EDT Detroit Tigers at Baltimore Orioles

[chasfh]

6 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said:

I like his persona on the mound.  Just seems like a guy who is always up for the challenge and doesn’t get rattled.  The results will be what they are, but he’s got moxie 

 

[NorthWoods]

42 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said:

I like his persona on the mound.  Just seems like a guy who is always up for the challenge and doesn’t get rattled.  The results will be what they are, but he’s got moxie 

So he'll do well vs Boston.

[SoCalTiger]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

This is hilarious because Avila didn’t even keep Paredes on the team long enough for Hinch to play him, and when Hinch did play him—which was practically every day he was on the active roster—Paredes couldn’t stay on the field!

tranx date	year	mlb team	minor lg team	level	status	transaction description	40-man
2021-09-20	2021	Detroit Tigers	MLB	MLB	Active	Recalled from Toledo (AAA)	Yes
2021-08-18	2021	Detroit Tigers	Toledo	AAA	Minors	Activated from Injured List	Yes
2021-08-17	2021	Detroit Tigers	Toledo	AAA	IL-10	Assigned to Toledo [AAA_East] (AAA) for rehab	Yes
2021-08-12	2021	Detroit Tigers	Lakeland	A	IL-10	Assigned to Lakeland [A2_SE] (A) for rehab	Yes
2021-07-30	2021	Detroit Tigers	Toledo	AAA	IL-10	Assigned to Toledo [AAA_East] (AAA) for rehab	Yes
2021-07-22	2021	Detroit Tigers	MLB	MLB	IL-10	IL-10 Right hip strain *Unknown*	Yes
2021-07-16	2021	Detroit Tigers	MLB	MLB	Active	Recalled from Toledo (AAA)	Yes
2021-06-27	2021	Detroit Tigers	Toledo	AAA	Minors	Assigned to Toledo [AAA_East] (AAA)	Yes
2021-06-19	2021	Detroit Tigers	MLB	MLB	Active	Recalled from Toledo (AAA)	Yes
2021-06-14	2021	Detroit Tigers	Toledo	AAA	Minors	Assigned to Toledo [AAA_East] (AAA)	Yes
2021-06-08	2021	Detroit Tigers	MLB	MLB	Active	Recalled from Toledo (AAA)	Yes
2021-03-25	2021	Detroit Tigers	Toledo	AAA	Minors	Assigned to Toledo [AAA_East] (AAA)	Yes

Oh, how soon we forget … 

Paredes got 72 AB's in 2020 and 100 AB's in 2021 and Tampa gave him 331 in 2022 and he improved immensely and then 492 in 2023 and he was an All Star. So maybe it was Avila and not Hinch who totally misjudged his talent. But I don't see any position player getting better playing for Hinch. To be fair it's mostly talent but work the zone and play all the positions might be a contributing factor to at least consider. Tampa saw talent in Parades - chose a position and gave him consistent AB's. And they sit atop the eastern division this morning.

I am not saying dump Hinch but we have had serious slumps three years running and position player development has not been the greatest. 

[gehringer_2]

16 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said:

So maybe it was Avila and not Hinch who totally misjudged his talent.

If Hinch asked for a player do we think Al would have refused? Whatever they should have seen, neither saw it. Roster decisions are co-operative.

Edited 5 hours ago by gehringer_2

[chasfh]

17 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said:

Paredes got 72 AB's in 2020 and 100 AB's in 2021 and Tampa gave him 331 in 2022 and he improved immensely and then 492 in 2023 and he was an All Star. So maybe it was Avila and not Hinch who totally misjudged his talent. 

Yes, this is true. No maybe about it. Paredes was available here for 30 games and Hinch started him in 20 of them.

I will also add that the majority opinion around here in 2021 was that we should dump Isaac Paredes, and I regularly caught a keyboard full of **** on MTS for advocating for him.

[gehringer_2]

50 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said:

am not saying dump Hinch but we have had serious slumps three years running and position player development has not been the greatest. 

It's hard to ever really know about a manager other than in retrospect after someone takes over the same players and either does better or face plants. Hinch wasn't Harris' hire but I would still guess that Hinch is here as long as Harris. I think the only way Hinch loses his gig would be if Ilitch decided to broom Harris and start over..

Edited 5 hours ago by gehringer_2

[chasfh]

5 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

It's hard to ever really know about a manager other than in retrospect after someone takes over the same players and either does better or face plants. Hinch wasn't Harris' hire but I would still guess that Hinch is here as long as Harris. I think the only way Hinch loses his gig would be if Ilitch decided to broom Harris and start over..

I will root for the team to win whether we keep our front office and manager or we broom them instead, but anyone who thinks the Tigers will become perennial winners by dumping Harris/Hinch AND ****canning analytics to go back to the kind of eyeball-based scouting systems in force when we were eleven years old is hepped up on goofballs.

[Tiger337]

3 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I will root for the team to win whether we keep our front office and manager or we broom them instead, but anyone who thinks the Tigers will become perennial winners by dumping Harris/Hinch AND ****canning analytics to go back to the kind of eyeball-based scouting systems in force when we were eleven years old is hepped up on goofballs.

They can still be a good organization without Harris and Hinch, but canning analytics would be suicide in this era.  I don't see that Gehringer is suggesting that though. 

[Nate7474]

Hinch is a well respected manager and like all managers he has strengths and faults. Is he the best at his job, probably not but is he the worst? I think the answer to that is definitely no and the players seems to want to play for him which I think in professional sports is the most underrated part of a manager. 
 

As far as Harris I personally like him a lot as he directs the organization more towards what I would do. Draft well and develop and then build from there. I do not believe this would be his route if he felt like he had a short lease or a direction from management to win right now. With that said he needs to show improvement in free agency decisions and trades. I do think that is something he can and will develop but he was so new and green coming up that relationships with agents take time to build. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Nate7474

[Motor City Sonics]

12 minutes ago, Nate7474 said:

Hinch is a well respected manager and like all managers he has strengths and faults. Is he the best at his job, probably not but is he the worst? I think the answer to that is definitely no and the players seems to want to play for him which I think in professional sports is the most underrated part of a manager. 
 

As far as Harris I personally like him a lot as he directs the organization more towards what I would do. Draft well and develop and then build from there. I do not believe this would be his route if he felt like he had a short lease or a direction from management to win right now. With that said he needs to show improvement in free agency decisions and trades. I do think that is something he can and will develop but he was so new and green coming up that relationships with agents take time to build. 

New and Green?   Wasn't he the GM for the Giants for several years before he came here?    He wasn't that green. 

[gehringer_2]

25 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

They can still be a good organization without Harris and Hinch, but canning analytics would be suicide in this era.  I don't see that Gehringer is suggesting that though. 

correct.

Not really implying that anyone is close to being fired, I was just arguing that I think under any hypothetical,  the connection from Harris to Hinch is pretty strong.

Edited 4 hours ago by gehringer_2

[Nate7474]

14 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

New and Green?   Wasn't he the GM for the Giants for several years before he came here?    He wasn't that green. 

For 3 years and basically in title only as he is president of baseball operations here and not GM. Giants had the same structure and Frahan Zaidi from what I read made the final and tough decisions. Only was asst GM or GM for around 4 years before being president here. Also only 35ish when he became in charge and younger than a lot of players. Yes I would say to relationship building and leadership of a baseball Organization he would be consider “Green” and that Illitch was banking on long term growth and learning when hiring him. 

[monkeytargets39]

The problem with getting rid of Harris is….who then replaces him?  Either a retread former GM that didn’t perform well which is why they’d be available, or a new-to-role guy like Harris was to start.  That would bring all different philosophies on use of analytics, drafting and scouting, etc.  Do we really need a third complete overhaul in the last 20 years?  

Harris currently is frustrating me with the major league roster decisions, but he’s been great at focusing on building up the organization and he has done a fantastic job with the draft to this point.  I’d rather give that stuff more time to bear fruit than start over on something else.

Edited 3 hours ago by monkeytargets39

[chasfh]

19 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said:

The problem with getting rid of Harris is….who then replaces him?  Either a retread former GM that didn’t perform well which is why they’d be available, or a new-to-role guy like Harris was to start.  That would bring all different philosophies on use of analytics, drafting and scouting, etc.  Do we really need a third complete overhaul in the last 20 years?  

Harris currently is frustrating me with the major league roster decisions, but he’s been great at focusing on building up the organization and he has done a fantastic job with the draft to this point.  I’d rather give that stuff more time to bear fruit than start over on something else.

I think a lot of Harris's major league decisions are more or less made for him by the circumstances he finds himself it. He can't sign Hall of Fame- or All-Star-level free agents if there's someplace else they'd rather go, and at this point there always is; he can't trade for controllable All-Star-level players without giving up at minimum Max Clark, the only player who could conceivably unlock such great players in trade; he can't trade for blue-chip prospects without giving up Hall of Fame- or All-Star-level players we have, of which there is one and perhaps (or perhaps not) two; and he can't simply pick up everyday regulars and above average pitchers off the waiver wire or the minor league free agent pile, or else trade our dregs for guys like that other teams will make freely available in trade, unless he gets good and lucky.

All that really leaves Harris is to develop the talent we have in house already and hope it works; as well as draft good players and sign good international amateur free agents in the future, develop them, and hope that works. And if/when we get enough of those players developed and we have enough of them helping us win at the big league level, then we'll be in a better position to make trades for actual really good players as well as make Detroit a more desirable destination for actual really good free agents. Because in this game, there's no escaping it: you have to get good first before you can get a lot better.

I acknowledge this mightily frustrates most of the posters here who will tell us it's not their job to know what moves Harris should make because they themselves don't work in front offices, but damn it, Harris does, so he should just make awesome moves happen. And for a fan, that's a defensible feeling, and actually, they don't even have to defend that feeling. That's part of what being a fan is all about. But just because a fan demands Harris should wave his magic wand or else find another job, that doesn't make it a reasonable benchmark by which Tigers ownership should judge Harris's performance, and thankfully, this ownership does not use that benchmark. So vent away and call for his head (and A.J.'s head) all you want, because it's not going to happen anytime soon, and I'm fine with that.

[gehringer_2]

8 minutes ago, chasfh said:

.

So vent away and call for his head (and A.J.'s head) all you want, because it's not going to happen anytime soon, and I'm fine with that.

for me the most valid criticism of Harris is the money spent on non-productive signings that would have been better spent on productive ones. I'm not sure where the disconnect lies between evaluation of draft and minor league prospects and current major league players, but there seems to be one. And it has mostly been on the pitching side (Paddock, Meada, Morton, Verlander is a sad list which I hope that Jansen doesn't add to). Torres earned his money last season. It's one thing to have misses, but a miss like Verlander is an expensive one - those dollars could have been spent on someone who is helping.

[chasfh]

31 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

for me the most valid criticism of Harris is the money spent on non-productive signings that would have been better spent on productive ones. 

Nothing wrong with your eyes! 😉

 

[monkeytargets39]

54 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

for me the most valid criticism of Harris is the money spent on non-productive signings that would have been better spent on productive ones. I'm not sure where the disconnect lies between evaluation of draft and minor league prospects and current major league players, but there seems to be one. And it has mostly been on the pitching side (Paddock, Meada, Morton, Verlander is a sad list which I hope that Jansen doesn't add to). Torres earned his money last season. It's one thing to have misses, but a miss like Verlander is an expensive one - those dollars could have been spent on someone who is helping.

What’s annoying is that a bunch of these guys are easily identifiable as bad signings/acquisitions before we they even play.  
 

Maeda was coming off a year and a half of being hurt.  I know you all love Verlander, but there was no scenario where we should be bringing him back and paying him substantial money.  Paddack has a career ERA+ of 86.  Morton is in his 40s.  Rafael Montero had a career ERA+ in the 80s and a 1.5 WHIP.

Kahnle was a guy I actually wanted us to sign and it worked well for the first few months and then he imploded.  The hit rate, K rate, era+ and other stats suggested he would be above average as a reliever and it just didn’t happen.

Urshela and Canha were just field filler signings.  Urshela was just a replacement level player even before we got him and the Canha signing I thought was decent but you’re bringing in a 35 year old.  He’s not going to suddenly get better without PEDs.

 

I’ll defend the Valdez signing to this point because I think it’s about as good of a fallback plan as we were Going to have if Skubal leaves.

 

If you look across the board for the last 4 years though, it’s Harris largely just plugging holes with bench-level players with minimal upside.  Even when they’re younger like a Trey Sweeney.  There isn’t really a collection of swing-for-the-fences moves to judge him on.
 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by monkeytargets39

[Tiger337]

24 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Nothing wrong with your eyes! 😉

 

It didn't take hindsight to figure out that Morton, Paddack and Jansen a number of other players would probably be a waste of money.  None of them were fatal because they've been short-term, but many were predictable.   

Edited 1 hour ago by Tiger337

[chasfh]

13 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

It didn't take hindsight to figure out that Morton, Paddack and Jansen a number of other players would probably be a waste of money.  None of them were fatal because they've been short-term, but many were predictable.   

You might be right about Jansen eventually, although I don't think we can write him off yet. 

[gehringer_2]

48 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Nothing wrong with your eyes! 😉

 

you can call it hindsight or you can say that the right choices are the difference between winners and losers. If there is no way to ever inform your choices better, then you might as well have kept Al Avila. It's Harris' job to figure out how to put resources where they produce the most return. No-one expects perfection - but you don't like seeing patterns in failure either.

Edited 1 hour ago by gehringer_2

[Tiger337]

1 minute ago, chasfh said:

You might be right about Jansen eventually, although I don't think we can write him off yet. 

No, I can't write him off yet, but I thought it was a lazy Avila-esque signing when it happened.  They have been burned by old man relievers so many times this century.  

[Nate7474]

3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

No, I can't write him off yet, but I thought it was a lazy Avila-esque signing when it happened.  They have been burned by old man relievers so many times this century.  

Honestly the signing wasn’t that bad when you take into consideration our bullpen last year. The bigger problem is almost across the board everyone is worse than where they were. I think they felt one more back end arm would be enough to keep wear and tear down and they don’t need a top tier arm anyway so why not take the experience. Then injuries and regression happened. 
 

I think there is plenty to blame this year including Hinch and Harris but I just can’t hold them completely accountable for a year where there’s lots of injuries and then people playing more then normal or out of position. Certainly not to the point where I would even entertain a changing of the guard.  Now a sit down evaluation around why this happened and how do you make sure it doesn’t again certainly is in the cards. Frankly something is in the water for Detroit because the Lions have had the same story the last 2 years. 

[chasfh]

30 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

No, I can't write him off yet, but I thought it was a lazy Avila-esque signing when it happened.  They have been burned by old man relievers so many times this century.  

He was nearly flawless for his last six appearances before yesterday. He looks like he still has something left in the tank. Worst case, we have him for only a year at not much money, with a team option for '27.