08/16/2026 8:10p EDT Detroit Tigers at Houston Astros

[Sports_Freak]

Overmanaged. Leave Montero in. Vest is allergic to stranding inherited runners. A winnable game, given away with a big bow.

[Tiger337]

13 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said:

It’s hard to mold lumps of feces into fine china

But they did that in 2024 and the first half of 2025.  Even before that they were getting a lot of mediocre bullpen pieces.  Now it's not working.  So, maybe Fetter wasn't a magician and was just lucky.  

[chasfh]

20 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

You can't keep saying that every time the bullpen blows a lead.  Teams with good bullpens can win close low scoring games sometimes.  The Tigers run differential is -8 but they are 13 games below .500.  The bullpen is partly reponsible for that.  

This is the first time I’ve said it.

Also, yeah, I agree the bullpen sucks.

[gehringer_2]

11 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

But they did that in 2024 and the first half of 2025.  Even before that they were getting a lot of mediocre bullpen pieces.  Now it's not working.  So, maybe Fetter wasn't a magician and was just lucky.  

you said it upthread, you can't win close without a better pen and the pen, which isn't good, is even worse when they can't make the plays on the ground balls they get. If Baez is at 3rd and McGonigle at his regular position at SS this might well have gone in on the W side. The least they can do if they want McGonigle to play 3rd is leave him there for an extended run, but moving him back and forth when he has so little experience at the one position is a terrible thing to do if you want to win late and close. I don't think he has gotten a run of more than 3 consecutive games at 3b all season. 

I guess the only way I can describe Hinch's regime is that to a larger degree than I think I seen ever done on a Tiger team, they commoditize their players. I can't think of a better term, but to me it's basically that they treat them like machines instead of people. Hinch always talks about that fact that he 'has buy in', but I'm sure that was a lot easier when the magic was working and they were winning. When you get pinch hit for by guy that is 0 for 21, you won't persuade me there is still a lot of 'buy in' going on.

Edited June 17 by gehringer_2

[Sports_Freak]

52 minutes ago, chasfh said:

0-for-his-last-21. 1-for-his-last-34. 2-for-his-last-44. Need I keep going?

I read the answer Hinch gave to the question about how much longer Jones has. He never did answer the question, just distracted and distorted some word jumble. I could just see the smugness and smirk in his answer. The Hinch shine wearing off pretty quickly. I can tolerate him when we win but his absolutely horrible managing decisions are very maddening. 

And....he's gonna ruin McGonigle. Leave the kid at one position and allow him to continue to learn. Not every player should be bounced around like a dime store utility player. 

[Tiger337]

8 minutes ago, chasfh said:

This is the first time I’ve said it.

Also, yeah, I agree the bullpen sucks.

I didn't mean "you" literally.  I have heard it said a lot by various posters.  

[SoCalTiger]

37 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I can see where there may be a 50,000 ft argument to be made about whether the Tigers, who under Leyland never wanted any pitcher to throw more than 3 pitches, have now gone too far the other way, having guys throwing 2 and 4 seam fastballs (which used to be rarer) and multiple off-speed offerings. Does that contribute to a staff that walks more, and if so, is the payoff worth doing it anyway?

But how much of that change in philosophy from the past originates with Fedder I haven't a clue.

To me Fedder gets some slack because Jansen's problem is just that's he's gotten old and has less in the tank, Plus we probably have some regressions going on. Vest is a guy that was cut, rule 5'd and cut again before he put together a couple of better years, but that may be all that is there as well. Holton's peripherals were maybe never quite as good as his results. etc.

I have read some reports that maybe Fetters's/Tiger's emphasis on spin is contributing to the pitching injuries on all levels. I have no clue if true. But agree that talent is the equalizer. 

[casimir]

10 hours ago, NorthWoods said:

It started with wearing helmets just to ride a bike.

 

Easy, now.  I wear a helmet whilst biking.

That can't be Bert on the bike in the picture.  He'd need at least 6 bodies to jump over.

[casimir]

8 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Have you ridden a bike lately?  It's dangerous out there.  Too many cars, nobody paying attention.  

And yes, I went without a helmet until I was nearly 40.  

Other cyclists, deer, myself.  I don't have the same balance that I used to.  I was resistant to wearing one, the wife persisted, and now I don't even think about it. 

[romad1]

20 minutes ago, casimir said:

Other cyclists, deer, myself.  I don't have the same balance that I used to.  I was resistant to wearing one, the wife persisted, and now I don't even think about it. 

Poorly managed trees limbs are a real problem.  I've had my helmet bounced off tree limbs multiple times on paths and sidewalks.   Same church that never cleared ice or snow from its sidewalk.  Enjoy your tax break, pastor. 

[romad1]

I got to say that a loss like last night and the two over the weekend really grind the gears.  We really need another professional hitter to stir this drink. 

[chasfh]

This was never designed to be the roster in Harris's and Ilitch’s dreams that was going to get us a ring. For better or worse, this is still a transitional roster to bridge us to the one they believe is the peak roster. Keith at third, Torres at second, Carpenter in right, even McGonigle at short was not the kind of roster they started planning for in 2022.

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, casimir said:

Other cyclists, deer, myself.  I don't have the same balance that I used to.  I was resistant to wearing one, the wife persisted, and now I don't even think about it. 

What convinced me was falling off my bike and breaking my nose.  A helmet probably wasn't going to help me in that case, but it got me thinking.  

[romad1]

8 minutes ago, chasfh said:

This was never designed to be the roster in Harris's and Ilitch’s dreams that was going to get us a ring. For better or worse, this is still a transitional roster to bridge us to the one they believe is the peak roster. Keith at third, Torres at second, Carpenter in right, even McGonigle at short was not the kind of roster they started planning for in 2022.

If its 2009's roster which was very transitional, i'm ok with the direction.  I don't know how you roll with multiple sub .200 hitters. 

[Tiger337]

25 minutes ago, chasfh said:

This was never designed to be the roster in Harris's and Ilitch’s dreams that was going to get us a ring. For better or worse, this is still a transitional roster to bridge us to the one they believe is the peak roster. Keith at third, Torres at second, Carpenter in right, even McGonigle at short was not the kind of roster they started planning for in 2022.

I don't think any team has the roster they planned for in 2022.  I think winning it all was the goal this year.  They didn't pay Valdez that big contract for a transition year.  It's not a dream roster, not a roster that was capable of withstanding all the injuries, but the plan was to win this year.  With Skubal and Mize most likely gone next year, they might have an even worse roster next year.  

[chasfh]

28 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't think any team has the roster they planned for in 2022.  I think winning it all was the goal this year.  They didn't pay Valdez that big contract for a transition year.  It's not a dream roster, not a roster that was capable of withstanding all the injuries, but the plan was to win this year.  With Skubal and Mize most likely gone next year, they might have an even worse roster next year.  

Every team would like to win it all every year, of course, but I don't think that was the explicit goal for the Tigers for 2026. I think the goal was to advance beyond the division series and count on the development of players in-house, plus the good health of 2024, to get us there. I believe if this were a go-for-broke win-or-bust year, we probably would have liquidated valuable but still unproven future assets like Max and McGonigle in exchnage for proven major leaguers probably with rings on their fingers already.

Some may insist that's simply not how Scott Harris rolls, because he'd been here three years already and never went for broke on trades, which proves he will never ever do so. I would counter that we have not been one or two pieces away from being a serious ring contender yet, so we have not been in the situation where go-for-broke win or bust trades makes sense. 

As for Valdez, I believe that signing was in part about giving us another rotation guy (bonus: with a ring on his finger) who can win for us in the playoffs, and in part about giving us a solid anchor for the rotation in 2027 and beyond that we can build around.

[Tiger337]

10 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Every team would like to win it all every year, of course, but I don't think that was the explicit goal for the Tigers for 2026. I think the goal was to advance beyond the division series and count on the development of players in-house, plus the good health of 2024, to get us there. I believe if this were a go-for-broke win-or-bust year, we probably would have liquidated valuable but still unproven future assets like Max and McGonigle in exchnage for proven major leaguers probably with rings on their fingers already.

 

You can't really build specifically for a championship.  The Dombrowski teams tried to do that. Ideally, you put your team in a position to make the playoffs every year or as many years as you can.  If you make it often enough, then hopefully you'll win one year.  What happens once you get there is largely a crapshoot.  No team goes into the playoffs hoping to win just one series or two series though.  

As for the Valdez signing, you've got a better chance for success with both Skubal and Valdez, so I think it's just as much about this year as future years.  

Edited June 17 by Tiger337

[chasfh]

18 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

As for the Valdez signing, you've got a better chance for success with both Skubal and Valdez, so I think it's just as much about this year as future years.  

On this we agree.

[NorthWoods]

11 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

 When you get pinch hit for by guy that is 0 for 21, you won't persuade me there is still a lot of 'buy in' going on.

Maybe I'm not a team guy.......but I'd be PISSED if this were done to me.

[casimir]

11 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

What convinced me was falling off my bike and breaking my nose.  A helmet probably wasn't going to help me in that case, but it got me thinking.  

Yikes!  Can’t say I’ve had that kind of experience.

[Sports_Freak]

10 hours ago, chasfh said:

I believe if this were a go-for-broke win-or-bust year, we probably would have liquidated valuable but still unproven future assets like Max and McGonigle in exchnage for proven major leaguers probably with rings on their fingers already.

 

 

They didn't really need to trade Max, Kevin or Melton. Just signing a couple of hitters would have made a huge difference. Even if they would have not signed Valdez and used that money on hitters....and before you ask who they could have signed, Lee and I had this discussion weeks (or months??) ago and i posted a link of all the movement in free agency last off season. Yes, some may not have wanted to play at Comerica but some may have wanted to. All we needed was 2 productive hitters after the slump and collapse at the end of last season. We were a run away from going to the ALCS...sigh....

[4hzglory]

2 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

They didn't really need to trade Max, Kevin or Melton. Just signing a couple of hitters would have made a huge difference. Even if they would have not signed Valdez and used that money on hitters....and before you ask who they could have signed, Lee and I had this discussion weeks (or months??) ago and i posted a link of all the movement in free agency last off season. Yes, some may not have wanted to play at Comerica but some may have wanted to. All we needed was 2 productive hitters after the slump and collapse at the end of last season. We were a run away from going to the ALCS...sigh....

Well they tried to sign Bregman prior to 2025 and it was clear he was looking for almost any other option as he took less in current value to sign with Boston-ended up a good choice for him, and this year it’s looking good better that we don’t have him.  The only other real bat that potentially fit this year was Bichette and he hasn’t done well this year at all either.  

[monkeytargets39]

15 hours ago, chasfh said:

This was never designed to be the roster in Harris's and Ilitch’s dreams that was going to get us a ring. For better or worse, this is still a transitional roster to bridge us to the one they believe is the peak roster. Keith at third, Torres at second, Carpenter in right, even McGonigle at short was not the kind of roster they started planning for in 2022.

Well what IS the roster he is aiming for?  If they started planning in 2022 and even now we are nowhere near that roster with hardly anything in the upper levels of the minors ready to be called up in the next year besides Clark and maybe Anderson…what steps are being taken to get there?  If you jump in role in 2022 and your first thought is the team I want to assemble will be ready in 2029, then you’re a terrible choice for a GM.

 

I’m not ready to say that about Harris, but actions need to start speaking louder than words at some point.  The goal is to dominate the strike zone—that’s the players Harris wants.  Yet we have had 14 position players who have below .315 OBP.  Dingler, Torres, Greene, McGonigle and Jace Jung are the only players above that mark.  We have 10 players this year with a 25% or higher K rate (Torkelson is over 33%.)  There has been very little accountability for poor play….and I get that injuries and viable replacements are not always there….but look no further than Wenceel and Jones this year.

 

My questions for Harris are 

 

1.) How long of a leash are we gonna be giving guys that don’t fit the team philosophy?

 

2.) How do you plan on bringing in players that do fit that philosophy aside from the draft?

 

Not trading Skubal, and aggressively shopping Mize/Torres/Jansen and perhaps others would be a mistake because that is clearly the easiest and quickest way to acquire some more players that fit the Harris agenda.  If we don’t do that—get ready for another year of Torkelson/Vierling/Perez/McKinstry/etc.  Guys that are proving over an extensive length of time that they are not winning players on any consistent basis.  

 

Edited June 18 by monkeytargets39

[Sports_Freak]

16 hours ago, 4hzglory said:

Well they tried to sign Bregman prior to 2025 and it was clear he was looking for almost any other option as he took less in current value to sign with Boston-ended up a good choice for him, and this year it’s looking good better that we don’t have him.  The only other real bat that potentially fit this year was Bichette and he hasn’t done well this year at all either.  

Well, hindsight is all great but, well, there's no guarantees. It surprises me how many free agents were really out there. Several on the list could have helped us, again, using hindsight. Not that any of them would want to take Detroit's money?

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/signed/_/year/2026

[gehringer_2]

15 hours ago, monkeytargets39 said:

The goal is to dominate the strike zone—that’s the players Harris wants.  Yet we have had 14 position players who have below .315 OBP.  Dingler, Torres, Greene, McGonigle and Jace Jung are the only players above that mark.  We have 10 players this year with a 25% or higher K rate (Torkelson is over 33%.)  There has been very little accountability for poor play…

I've always had a sneaking suspicion that I can't shake that Harris talks about controlling the zone and Hinch smiles and nods and then goes back and makes it tacitly clear  to his hitters in the clubhouse that what he wants them playing for is the long ball and he doesn't care how they get there. It would explain a lot about they way they actually play.  🤷‍♂️