CMRivdogs Posted August 4 Posted August 4 5 minutes ago, LongLiveMaroth said: I just can't trust Boras on this. I find it very hard to believe Harris took that offer to him after giving Flaherty 20M and Valdez 30+M. Boras is going to paint himself and Skubal in the best light possible. Obviously Harris won't come out and dispute it because FO don't do that. I honestly think people will be happy we didn't extend Skubal here in 2-3 years because he has had TJ twice plus the other nano-surgery. I basically agree. Boras did what agents are supposed to do, present their clients in the best light. Harris, on the other hand has the responsibility of doing the same for the team. I agree, long term contract for a pitcher with a history of arm issues, especially around age 30 to me seem to be a risk. Especially if we're talking about the amount of money Skubal (and Boris) are looking for. That said, I'm also not carrying much hope that we'll see much of Job in the future either, Quote
LongLiveMaroth Posted August 4 Posted August 4 Honestly if Hope turns into Wilyer Abreu, that's a W. Quote
Tigermojo Posted August 4 Author Posted August 4 Just read Harris' comments on the official site and it makes sense that teams made their strongest offers right away for Skubal. No need to wait more hours because there was no where for them to pivot to. You want the best pitcher or you don't. 1 Quote
Tiger337 Posted August 4 Posted August 4 28 minutes ago, LongLiveMaroth said: I just can't trust Boras on this. I find it very hard to believe Harris took that offer to him after giving Flaherty 20M and Valdez 30+M. Boras is going to paint himself and Skubal in the best light possible. Obviously Harris won't come out and dispute it because FO don't do that. I honestly think people will be happy we didn't extend Skubal here in 2-3 years because he has had TJ twice plus the other nano-surgery. Extending any pitcher long term is a big risk. They all get hurt. Building a stable core of hitters and regularly updating the pitching staff seems like a reasonable plan. 1 Quote
Tigermojo Posted August 4 Author Posted August 4 4 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Extending any pitcher long term is a big risk. They all get hurt. Building a stable core of hitters and regularly updating the pitching staff seems like a reasonable plan. Nobody knows what the new labor deal will be either. A record deal for Skubal could prevent a team like Detroit from making moves they need to make. They are going into next year with all options available no matter what the players and owners decide. 1 Quote
gehringer_2 Posted August 4 Posted August 4 1 hour ago, Tiger337 said: There is no way they would have made these trades if they were in first place. They made the trade because they are a losing team this year. Harris said that several times, this it was his view this team had fallen short, and if it hadn't they would have acted differently. He repeated it several times. We look at 2 1/2 back of the WC, but he's looking at where he wanted the team to have been, and by that standard they fell short enough that his decision was to sell. Quote
papalawrence Posted August 4 Posted August 4 Yep, Boras has a higher spin rate than Dylan Cease. If Boras suggested an 8 year extension that would likely have closed the door for Harris. Huge long-term contracts for pitchers or most position players post 30 are a great risk. Pitchers post 30 are just stupid Quote
AlaskanTigersFan Posted August 4 Posted August 4 2 minutes ago, Tigermojo said: Nobody knows what the new labor deal will be either. A record deal for Skubal could prevent a team like Detroit from making moves they need to make. They are going into next year with all options available no matter what the players and owners decide. And when Baez's deal is done after next year, the Tigers will have some serious $$$ to go after players. They have an amazing core to build around and the franchise looks to be in good shape in the near and long term future..... The Tigers shed nearly 60 million next year alone and another 32 the year after that. We could have over $125 million to spend each year coming up in the very near future. I'll take that with our core. https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/detroit-tigers/yearly 1 Quote
gehringer_2 Posted August 4 Posted August 4 49 minutes ago, LongLiveMaroth said: I just can't trust Boras on this. I find it very hard to believe Harris took that offer to him after giving Flaherty 20M and Valdez 30+M. Boras is going to paint himself and Skubal in the best light possible. Obviously Harris won't come out and dispute it because FO don't do that. I honestly think people will be happy we didn't extend Skubal here in 2-3 years because he has had TJ twice plus the other nano-surgery. I believe the second elbow surgery was actually nerve realignment as opposed to a second pass at his UCL but the point still stands that he's had a lot of work done. Quote
DTroppens Posted August 4 Posted August 4 14 hours ago, Tiger337 said: I feel like this is the first time in 58 years of following the Tigers where I felt they still had a shot and were playing well (since May) and they just gave up on the season at the deadline. I am not upset about it, but it feels weird. I understand it, but I don't like it. Like I said, maybe I'll change my mind in a few years. Or maybe this year if they pull another 2024. I am pretty sure this is the first time as well. I'm not upset with it. The team had all this time to get 1 1/2 games up than being out of the playoffs AND with a losing record. If this was 1985 and being two games behind and we're talking two teams that are 20 and 22 games above .500, then you have to take a shot. Back then making the playoffs was just way tougher and that would've been more my mindset back then. Even if the Tigers were say 6 games above .500 and just 2 games out (of course that scenario isn't this season, I'm just making things up here) let's say just four teams make the AL playoffs then I probably would've kept him and tried to build for the team. Heck, even with a losing record but two games out, I may have done it because only four teams make the playoffs in each league. But when the seasons are shaking to the point where 86 wins can get you in the playoffs in any given year, and six teams are making the playoffs in each division, it's just way more available for every team to be in a playoff push every season. Look at this season. While it is a tad extreme, the Tigers are still a decent number of games below .500 and are in the race. If you can play .520 ball, chances are you are going to be in a race for a playoff spot from here on out. That winning percentage probably won't get you in most seasons, but it will some seasons. It's a little easier today to think "about the future" than the immediacy of just making the playoffs. Even the jump from four to six in each league is a big jump. It just changes the dynamics of what the bar is to be a playoff team by quite a bit. Basically average teams are going to have a chance to make the playoffs less than 10 games above .500. That really is the bar - 86-76. It's a good season, but there were a lot of years in the 1980s that wouldn't have been much of a record in the AL East. Your season in terms of contending for anything would've been basically over in late August in a lot of cases. Quote
AlaskanTigersFan Posted August 4 Posted August 4 3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Harris said that several times, this it was his view this team had fallen short, and if it hadn't they would have acted differently. He repeated it several times. We look at 2 1/2 back of the WC, but he's looking at where he wanted the team to have been, and by that standard they fell short enough that his decision was to sell. Harris took a lot of blame in his press conference. I don't blame him for his players not executing..... This bullpen should be a lot closer to middle of the pack. Not 29th out of 30.... That's on the players. Good guy for taking the fall on the sword but this isn't on him.... I blame Valdez for not living up to his contract and our BP for sucking this year. Harris because he sold off, did what was right for the organization. I give him an A right now for the job he's done the last two years for sure. Quote
papalawrence Posted August 4 Posted August 4 Aug 28-29-30 Tigers host LAD. That should be a fun weekend Quote
Longgone Posted August 4 Posted August 4 53 minutes ago, LongLiveMaroth said: I just can't trust Boras on this. I find it very hard to believe Harris took that offer to him after giving Flaherty 20M and Valdez 30+M. Boras is going to paint himself and Skubal in the best light possible. Obviously Harris won't come out and dispute it because FO don't do that. I honestly think people will be happy we didn't extend Skubal here in 2-3 years because he has had TJ twice plus the other nano-surgery. If that offer were actually made, it was likely earlier and an offer to buy out arb years at a premium in exchange for a year or two of free agency, and it was likely an opener for negotiations, which were rebuffed by the agent. 1 Quote
Shades of Deivi Cruz Posted August 4 Posted August 4 2 minutes ago, AlaskanTigersFan said: Harris took a lot of blame in his press conference. I don't blame him for his players not executing..... Sub in "General Managing" for "Gambling" 2 Quote
Tenacious D Posted August 4 Posted August 4 53 minutes ago, LongLiveMaroth said: I just can't trust Boras on this. I find it very hard to believe Harris took that offer to him after giving Flaherty 20M and Valdez 30+M. Boras is going to paint himself and Skubal in the best light possible. Obviously Harris won't come out and dispute it because FO don't do that. I honestly think people will be happy we didn't extend Skubal here in 2-3 years because he has had TJ twice plus the other nano-surgery. I think any concerns about his long-term health probably factor in. Harris isn’t going to express these concerns publicly, but they probably comprehended. Any contract north of 5-6 years would be incredibly irresponsible, but some team is likely to go there. Glad it’s not us. Quote
gehringer_2 Posted August 4 Posted August 4 15 minutes ago, AlaskanTigersFan said: Harris took a lot of blame in his press conference. I don't blame him for his players not executing..... This bullpen should be a lot closer to middle of the pack. Not 29th out of 30.... That's on the players. Good guy for taking the fall on the sword but this isn't on him.... I blame Valdez for not living up to his contract and our BP for sucking this year. Harris because he sold off, did what was right for the organization. I give him an A right now for the job he's done the last two years for sure. Vest's underperformance was one of the big ones, and it has transpired that his arm was actually giving out. What can you do? Like Harris said, apparently there is no level of depth that is deep enough anymore. Baseball is becoming like football. Quote
NorthWoods Posted August 4 Posted August 4 11 hours ago, lordstanley said: I once made a spur-of-the-moment decision in 1990 in an 8th floor hostel of Chungking Mansions in Hong Kong that has impacted my life every day since. The closest I've ever been to Hong Kong was reading Clavell's Asian saga. Is your decision public? Quote
NorthWoods Posted August 4 Posted August 4 10 hours ago, papalawrence said: I once made a mistake that got me banned from the Amway Grand Hotel for life Probably saved you a few $$. Quote
Sports_Freak Posted August 4 Posted August 4 27 minutes ago, AlaskanTigersFan said: Harris took a lot of blame in his press conference. I don't blame him for his players not executing..... This bullpen should be a lot closer to middle of the pack. Not 29th out of 30.... That's on the players. Good guy for taking the fall on the sword but this isn't on him.... I blame Valdez for not living up to his contract and our BP for sucking this year. Harris because he sold off, did what was right for the organization. I give him an A right now for the job he's done the last two years for sure. And also Flaherty. He soiled the bed the first couple (few) months of the season. He wants to make snide remarks on Twitter but he should look in the mirror. Like Lee said, if we were in first place, we may not have traded Skubal and Mize. Jack, Vest and Jensen all helped derail this season. At least, IMO. Quote
SoCalTiger Posted August 4 Posted August 4 I think Harris was quite humble and my impression of him only increased with his comments. I was and remain happy he is at the helm. He has a process and seems consistent and willing to learn. Trading Skubal on Friday was perfectly ok I don't understand the criticism for not waiting longer. He did that with Erod and got burned so he adjusted which is good. He also avoided the "take it or leave it" offer pressure with the clock running down. 1 2 Quote
Sports_Freak Posted August 4 Posted August 4 (edited) 7 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said: I think Harris was quite humble and my impression of him only increased with his comments. I was and remain happy he is at the helm. He has a process and seems consistent and willing to learn. Trading Skubal on Friday was perfectly ok I don't understand the criticism for not waiting longer. He did that with Erod and got burned so he adjusted which is good. He also avoided the "take it or leave it" offer pressure with the clock running down. Yeah, selling players who were soon to be leaving anyway was something that had to be done. He did the bare amount of work he had to. Not picking up a bullpen arm is a huge fail for this season. The Twins swung a deal for a closer but they had to give up some prospects. I'm not sure who was available at what cost but not getting an arm may end up really hurting this team...this season. https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/breaking-twins-acquire-jeff-hoffman-from-blue-jays/ar-AA29kYha Edited August 4 by Sports_Freak Quote
Tigermojo Posted August 4 Author Posted August 4 13 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: And also Flaherty. He soiled the bed the first couple (few) months of the season. He wants to make snide remarks on Twitter but he should look in the mirror. Like Lee said, if we were in first place, we may not have traded Skubal and Mize. Jack, Vest and Jensen all helped derail this season. At least, IMO. Plenty of blame to go around in that clubhouse. A lot of those guys just needed to be average and they couldn't even do that. Quote
LongLiveMaroth Posted August 4 Posted August 4 5 minutes ago, Tigermojo said: Plenty of blame to go around in that clubhouse. A lot of those guys just needed to be average and they couldn't even do that. I saw this tweet a couple of days ago. It really shows how far some dropped off. 1 1 Quote
Tigermojo Posted August 4 Author Posted August 4 3 minutes ago, LongLiveMaroth said: I saw this tweet a couple of days ago. It really shows how far some dropped off. Plus the vets like Baez, Valdez, Jensen and Verlander. Lots of performances drop offs on this team. Quote
Tiger337 Posted August 4 Posted August 4 16 minutes ago, LongLiveMaroth said: I saw this tweet a couple of days ago. It really shows how far some dropped off. A lot of that (McKinstry, Perez, Jones, Finnegan) could have been anticipated though, so, while I don't blame it all on Harris, he is not totally absolved. Jansen and Anderson could also have been anticipated. Quote
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