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2021 Offseason - 2021/22 PreSeason Thread


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Hopefully the profile picture gives it away but this is drownwithyou.  I haven't used that username anywhere else in a while so I'm taking this opportunity to switch it to something I currently use elsewhere. 

 

McIsaac got hurt in the prospect tournament, got hit from behind and was knocked out for a short time.  Berggren missed the last game due to injury and they held Raymond out as a precaution. 

 

 

 

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This is Frederick Arthur Stanley, 16th Earl of Derby, Lord Stanley of Preston.

It's funny, there were a couple of new posts to the Wings forum a week ago before the crash and I kept clicking to read them but never could. Kept doing that for a few days, like Charlie Brown with Lucy.

Yeah, the McIsaac hit was brutal. He was out cold. Guy who did it seemed quite shaken afterwards.

One of the questions I asked before the crash is whether Veleno's stock has dropped so much. IIRC, that one prospects list I saw had him barely in the top 100, behind 5 or so other WIngs.

 

 

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One of those new posts was when I responded to you on Veleno haha!  I think most evaluators don't see him as more of a line 3 center/maybe line 2 winger so he's settled into the lower tier of prospects it seems like.  After seeing some of his game in the SHL I think he's going to be more valuable to a team than the evaluators think, but he won't be lighting it up on the scoresheet most likely.  He seems to have put on a lot of strength and he still skates well so I hope he can provide some quality minutes for the Wings.  His shot is actually better than I expected since everyone talked about how subpar it was around draft, so there is still a chance he develops more offense.

 

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2 hours ago, slothfacekilla said:

One of those new posts was when I responded to you on Veleno haha!  I think most evaluators don't see him as more of a line 3 center/maybe line 2 winger so he's settled into the lower tier of prospects it seems like.  After seeing some of his game in the SHL I think he's going to be more valuable to a team than the evaluators think, but he won't be lighting it up on the scoresheet most likely.  He seems to have put on a lot of strength and he still skates well so I hope he can provide some quality minutes for the Wings.  His shot is actually better than I expected since everyone talked about how subpar it was around draft, so there is still a chance he develops more offense.

 

I see, thanks!

 

in other news …
 

 

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2 minutes ago, lordstanley said:

I see, thanks!

 

in other news …
 

 

Well that is... very disappointing.  I believe the Bertuzzi's are having a kid soon as well.  I hope he gets his "research" in and decides to get vaccinated.  I wouldn't mind if the Wings took the stance other teams like the Blue Jackets/Isles are taking and just telling him to stay home.

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the prospect tournament was not a fun watch.  wings looked steps behind the other teams.  veleno would be expected to dominate such a group but did anything but.  the wings were pushed around by st louis and skated around by columbus.

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10 minutes ago, buddha said:

the prospect tournament was not a fun watch.  wings looked steps behind the other teams.  veleno would be expected to dominate such a group but did anything but.  the wings were pushed around by st louis and skated around by columbus.

You're not wrong but at least the Wings were without Seider, Edvinsson, Berggren (for most of the tournament), Johannson, Wallinder, Buium, Niderbach Tuomisto, Viro, Mastrosimone, etc etc from their top prospects while St. Louis was bringing 25 year old NHL playing goons.  Raymond didn't play the last game, so without him and Berggren the already shallow depth was more exposed. 

Veleno was solid but disappointing that he didn't pop.  I thought Brattstrom looked solid in net as I had not seen him play before.  Raymond looked good especially as the tournament went on.  It was cool to see some of Zito since he didn't play all last season it seemed like he got his legs a bit as the tournament went on.  Tyutyayev was fun to watch and I didn't think he looked like he was getting pushed around at all.

It would have been nice for the Wings to dominate the scrimmages but there was still stuff to be encouraged about imo.  Even with Cossa looking like utter crap he's still super young and goalies are voodoo so who knows.

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2 hours ago, slothfacekilla said:

You're not wrong but at least the Wings were without Seider, Edvinsson, Berggren (for most of the tournament), Johannson, Wallinder, Buium, Niderbach Tuomisto, Viro, Mastrosimone, etc etc from their top prospects while St. Louis was bringing 25 year old NHL playing goons.  Raymond didn't play the last game, so without him and Berggren the already shallow depth was more exposed. 

Veleno was solid but disappointing that he didn't pop.  I thought Brattstrom looked solid in net as I had not seen him play before.  Raymond looked good especially as the tournament went on.  It was cool to see some of Zito since he didn't play all last season it seemed like he got his legs a bit as the tournament went on.  Tyutyayev was fun to watch and I didn't think he looked like he was getting pushed around at all.

It would have been nice for the Wings to dominate the scrimmages but there was still stuff to be encouraged about imo.  Even with Cossa looking like utter crap he's still super young and goalies are voodoo so who knows.

I think its unfair to judge them on pre-season games where your main guys don't play.   I mean look at the Lions,  they lost all their preseason games and then when the season started they..................oh, never mind.............we're screwed. 

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18 hours ago, slothfacekilla said:

You're not wrong but at least the Wings were without Seider, Edvinsson, Berggren (for most of the tournament), Johannson, Wallinder, Buium, Niderbach Tuomisto, Viro, Mastrosimone, etc etc from their top prospects while St. Louis was bringing 25 year old NHL playing goons.  Raymond didn't play the last game, so without him and Berggren the already shallow depth was more exposed. 

Veleno was solid but disappointing that he didn't pop.  I thought Brattstrom looked solid in net as I had not seen him play before.  Raymond looked good especially as the tournament went on.  It was cool to see some of Zito since he didn't play all last season it seemed like he got his legs a bit as the tournament went on.  Tyutyayev was fun to watch and I didn't think he looked like he was getting pushed around at all.

It would have been nice for the Wings to dominate the scrimmages but there was still stuff to be encouraged about imo.  Even with Cossa looking like utter crap he's still super young and goalies are voodoo so who knows.

i totally forgot about cossa looking like utter crap.  beat in the 5 hole.  beat to the glove side.  beat on bad shots.

it was not good all the way around.

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1 hour ago, buddha said:

i wonder at what point buffalo deals eichel for a serious discount?

what a horrible organization.  snake bit and run badly.  not a good combination.

What a crazy situation, he flunks his physical and gets the C taken away.  Seems like it is 100% he is traded but is he healthy enough to get a good return?

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10 minutes ago, slothfacekilla said:

What a crazy situation, he flunks his physical and gets the C taken away.  Seems like it is 100% he is traded but is he healthy enough to get a good return?

I can sympathize with him though. Fusion is a last resort kind of solution - I don't know anything about the alternative he wants to try but if it's viable I know I'd go a long way to find an alternative to fusion. 

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59 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I can sympathize with him though. Fusion is a last resort kind of solution - I don't know anything about the alternative he wants to try but if it's viable I know I'd go a long way to find an alternative to fusion. 

Can't disagree with you here, I will usually side with the player especially when it comes to their own health.

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red wings preseason projections from the athletic.  they were spot on last year with the wings.

if theyre going to be a surprise, then guys like zadina and ras have to be better and live up to their draft position.  they should be better than last year, but they were pretty bad last year.

what they really need is the one thing they really cant control: lottery luck.  there are some superstar prospects coming up but only if youre top two.  the league has fucked them with the lottery system so far and it shows in their roster.

that said, ras was a miss.  zadina looks like a miss too.  that's what is really killing them up front.

hopefully seider can live up to his billing and the new goalie with the ridiculously long last name doesnt regress.  that could give them a shot.

but is the best thing for them to have a shot at the playoffs?  what would really be best - and is more likely - is that theyre bad for another year but show signs of growth, bertuzzi is good enough to attract serious trade interest, they miss the playoffs and pick up some assets for bert and leddy, and then look to make their move back to the playoffs next season when raymond is here and seider is more experienced.

Screen-Shot-2021-09-20-at-8.07.12-PM.png

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7 hours ago, buddha said:

red wings preseason projections from the athletic.  they were spot on last year with the wings.

if theyre going to be a surprise, then guys like zadina and ras have to be better and live up to their draft position.  they should be better than last year, but they were pretty bad last year.

what they really need is the one thing they really cant control: lottery luck.  there are some superstar prospects coming up but only if youre top two.  the league has fucked them with the lottery system so far and it shows in their roster.

that said, ras was a miss.  zadina looks like a miss too.  that's what is really killing them up front.

hopefully seider can live up to his billing and the new goalie with the ridiculously long last name doesnt regress.  that could give them a shot.

but is the best thing for them to have a shot at the playoffs?  what would really be best - and is more likely - is that theyre bad for another year but show signs of growth, bertuzzi is good enough to attract serious trade interest, they miss the playoffs and pick up some assets for bert and leddy, and then look to make their move back to the playoffs next season when raymond is here and seider is more experienced.

Screen-Shot-2021-09-20-at-8.07.12-PM.png

Yes, I bet few teams have got such little production so far out of their 1st round draft picks of past five years. 
 

 

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On 9/25/2021 at 3:54 PM, lordstanley said:

Yes, I bet few teams have got such little production so far out of their 1st round draft picks of past five years. 
 

I still have a little hope Rasmussen turns into an asset. Fading fast for the others. Yzerman keeps saying nice things about Velano, but it's probably just GM speak.

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46 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I still have a little hope Rasmussen turns into an asset. Fading fast for the others. Yzerman keeps saying nice things about Velano, but it's probably just GM speak.

I remember the day after the 2018 draft thinking it could help set the Wings up for years. Zadina, Veleno, Berggren, McIsaac. 

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Y'all are hilarious with your expectations and evaluations of the young guys.  Zadina has worked hard on his two way game and has a better PPG than Kotkaniemi in the same draft.  And he's 21.  I fear what you all would expect from the kid if the Wings ever won the 1st overall.

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1 hour ago, slothfacekilla said:

Y'all are hilarious with your expectations and evaluations of the young guys.  Zadina has worked hard on his two way game and has a better PPG than Kotkaniemi in the same draft.  And he's 21.  I fear what you all would expect from the kid if the Wings ever won the 1st overall.

If we won 1st overall we'd expect Connor McDavid, of course!

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3 hours ago, slothfacekilla said:

Y'all are hilarious with your expectations and evaluations of the young guys.  Zadina has worked hard on his two way game and has a better PPG than Kotkaniemi in the same draft.  And he's 21.  I fear what you all would expect from the kid if the Wings ever won the 1st overall.

its not just us!  from the athletic season preview:

Zadina is 21 now and his first “full” season left a lot to be desired. After two auditions where he didn’t seem to understand the assignment at five-on-five, Zadina continued to struggle mightily last season. He put up a 42 percent expected goals rate, which was the second worst on the team ahead of only Luke Glendening. That’s on a very bad Red Wings team and it’s not like he was scoring much either as he only put up 1.2 points per 60 at five-on-five. 

At such a young age it’s helpful to look at comps to see that current difference-makers also struggled early in their careers. While there are some optimistic trajectories (Sean Couturier), most of Zadina’s top comps were middle-six forwards at best. That’s better than MRasmussen at least, whose best claim to fame is that he is quite tall. He is 6-foot-6 every time he steps on the ice, but that doesn’t actually make him effective. His play-driving ability was also awful and he scored even less efficiently than Zadina. The large majority of his comps are other very tall fourth-liners.

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its a big season for zadina.  hopefully he continues to improve.  he was working noticeably harder last season and sometimes you could tell he was the wings' most skilled player on the ice.  is it a matter of "the pucks will eventually go in the net" or "he'll be a second line winger at best."

 

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