4/26 7:40 Tigers @ Twins

[SeattleMike]

14 hours ago, SoCalTiger said:

So in the morning we wake up in the cellar but only two games out in the loss column with 146 games to go. We're going to  be fine. We have the depth. Baez looks like a star, Meadows a solid contributer and Torkelson  the real deal. Again just need to tighten the defense and get to warm weather. I bet they break out in LA of all places. Patience grasshoppers.

Complain about the defense I guess. But the reason the Tigers are 4 games below .500 after 16 games is the offense. I believe the Tigers have scored more than 3 runs only 5 times. More than 4 runs (the MLB average) only three times. They are second to last in HRs with a total of 8. Several of these guys have track records to suggest brighter days are ahead. Just have to wait it out. 

[Sports_Freak]

2 hours ago, mtutiger said:

He threw more balls than strikes. And he served up a cookie to Buxton that was lucky to not have been hit out. 

How Soto pitched has absolutely no bearing or relevance on the job that Fulmer did... he wasn't good and he got lucky that he didn't give up any runs. I have a lot of confidence in him, but just because I do doesn't mean I'm gonna pull punches when I see him have a subpar outing. Sorry.

So if he would have grooved some fastballs right down the middle and they hit 3 home runs, you would say at least he threw strikes? There's an art to being effectively wild. And yes, luck was involved. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.

[mtutiger]

5 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

So if he would have grooved some fastballs right down the middle and they hit 3 home runs, you would say at least he threw strikes? There's an art to being effectively wild. And yes, luck was involved. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.

I would prefer that a pitcher throw strikes while locating their pitches.

If they are walking guys and/or grooving fastballs, they aren't doing a good job. Which, on both counts, was what Fulmer did in at times in his outing last night.

I'm happy that he walked away unscathed, but just because a pitcher doesn't give up any runs in an outing doesn't mean he had his good stuff. 

Edited April 27, 2022 by mtutiger

[Sports_Freak]

Just now, mtutiger said:

I would prefer that a pitcher throw strikes while locating their pitches.

If they are walking guys and/or grooving fastballs, they aren't doing a good job. Which, on both counts, was what Fulmer did in at times in his outing last night.

Ok...he lost the game for us. Has he even given up a run this season? Must just be luck. 🤣🤣

[mtutiger]

6 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Ok...he lost the game for us. Has he even given up a run this season? Must just be luck. 🤣🤣

Again, I think he is a very good pitcher and has done a good job this season. But I watched his outing last night an he gave up a lot of hard contact and lacked the control that one normally expects from him.

It doesn't mean he lost them the game, it doesn't mean that he's not a good pitcher, he just didn't have his good stuff last night. Which happens to even the best of pitchers.

Looking at the run column and making a judgment on a pitcher's outing doesn't necessarily tell the story. We've all survived Todd Jones, Fernando Rodney, Jose Valverde and (now) Gregory Soto, so we should know this by now.

Edited April 27, 2022 by mtutiger

[casimir]

10 hours ago, Shades of Deivi Cruz said:

Because he was covering the plate after Haas entered the rundown, and he could plainly see that he wasn't in the way of the runner and that they lost the game? I see lots of problems with that play, but where Soto was at the end isn't really one of them to me.

Looking at the replay again, you're right, there was no play to be made.  There was nobody within the zip code of where the overthrow landed, so there was no way the Tigers were going to cut down that game winning run once it got past Candelario.

[casimir]

1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said:

So if he would have grooved some fastballs right down the middle and they hit 3 home runs, you would say at least he threw strikes? There's an art to being effectively wild. And yes, luck was involved. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.

I think that's overblown.  5 strikes out of 13 pitches is not effectively wild.  Otherwise, we'd see that more often out of one inning relievers.

[gehringer_2]

8 minutes ago, casimir said:

Looking at the replay again, you're right, there was no play to be made.  There was nobody within the zip code of where the overthrow landed, so there was no way the Tigers were going to cut down that game winning run once it got past Candelario.

At worst, if Haase believes there is no-one behind him, he stays close enough to the 3b line so runner 3 can't get past him and holds the ball until someone gets there to back up home or until runner 2 forces him to throw to 2nd. Point is, he doesn't have to hurry -  has lots of time for help to arrive - relatively.

Edited April 27, 2022 by gehringer_2

[Sports_Freak]

10 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

At worst, if Haase believes there is no-one behind him, he stays close enough to the 3b line so runner 3 can't get past him and holds the ball until someone gets there to back up home or until runner 2 forces him to throw to 2nd. Point is, he doesn't have to hurry -  has lots of time for help to arrive - relatively.

And it woulda been the 2nd out. I say Soto would have saved that game. It would have been a miracle with his opening wildness though.

[Sports_Freak]

16 minutes ago, casimir said:

I think that's overblown.  5 strikes out of 13 pitches is not effectively wild.  Otherwise, we'd see that more often out of one inning relievers.

He wad facing the heart of the Twins lineup and didn't give in to them. Made them try to hit HIS pitch. Yes, they were all over the place but who knows, maybe that's the reason they couldn't square it up. At the end of the day. Fulmer's outing was down the list of things for us to be complaining about in the loss.

[mtutiger]

26 minutes ago, casimir said:

I think that's overblown.  5 strikes out of 13 pitches is not effectively wild.  Otherwise, we'd see that more often out of one inning relievers.

As a general rule, throwing more balls than strikes should generally be considered a bad thing.

And the thing is that Fulmer would probably admit it... 

[mtutiger]

 

[gehringer_2]

Just now, mtutiger said:

As a general rule, throwing more balls than strikes should generally be considered a bad thing.

And the thing is that Fulmer would probably admit it... 

sure, the thing with relievers is that actual results in baseball have so many randomizing inputs that results can remain stubbornly divergent from a pitcher's peripherals for a long time (see: Valverde, Jose). Neither Fulmer's velo nor command were great last night, but conditions sucked and he got out of his inning so I'm not going to complain until he doesn't have better peripherals under better conditions.